The Avengers: The Motion Picture Discussion Thread- Open SPOILERS -enter at own risk!

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I always thought Planet Hulk would make a killer movie. It would have to have an Avatar-sized budget though. I'd also like to see an Avengers sequel involve Kang and have the Avengers invade a Kirbyesque 40th century to stop an invasion.
 
Re: The Avengers: The Motion Picture Discussion Thread

Wow, the actress from American Werewolf in London is in Avengers, cool.
 
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Re: The Avengers: The Motion Picture Discussion Thread

That is incorrect, it is completely legally possible if the right agreements were struck. It would simply require Marvel Studios to sign over a percentage of the box office receipts over to Sony for usage of the character. The lawyers would have to fight over how much of a percentage would belong to Sony due to the draw of the Spider-Man character which is always the hiccup but it's definitely possible. The trickest part comes with merchandising, anything Spider-Man related by contract of Marvel/Sony would belong to Sony but also anything Avengers related would have to cut a percentage over to Sony as well as they can argue that Spider-Man created the want/desire for said pieces. It's messy and would have taken a lot of work done before the film even began filming but it's definitely doable. Whether any of the studios would WANT to do so is the bigger issue. I don't see Disney simply signing over any money for any reason.

As people are pointing you as the guy who seems to be in the know, I thought I would ask, does it work differently when just characters are mentioned rather than shown and played in a movie. For example in Reservoir dogs, I believe the thing from Fantastic Four is mentioned, and in the Credits, something is mentioned about the rights belonging to marvel. Surely that acts as pure advertising for maverl to be mention, or do they hold out there hand to the film company and say "Cough Up"?
 
Re: The Avengers: The Motion Picture Discussion Thread

Wow, the actress from American. Werewolf in London is in Avengers, cool.

I had a big crush on Jenny Agutter back in the day. :love :D

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Re: The Avengers: The Motion Picture Discussion Thread

As people are pointing you as the guy who seems to be in the know, I thought I would ask, does it work differently when just characters are mentioned rather than shown and played in a movie. For example in Reservoir dogs, I believe the thing from Fantastic Four is mentioned, and in the Credits, something is mentioned about the rights belonging to marvel. Surely that acts as pure advertising for maverl to be mention, or do they hold out there hand to the film company and say "Cough Up"?

That would've required permission from Marvel and is up to them to decide whether or not to charge money for the mention/usage of the character.
 
Re: The Avengers: The Motion Picture Discussion Thread

As people are pointing you as the guy who seems to be in the know, I thought I would ask, does it work differently when just characters are mentioned rather than shown and played in a movie. For example in Reservoir dogs, I believe the Thing from Fantastic Four is mentioned, and in the Credits, something is mentioned about the rights belonging to Marvel. Surely that acts as pure advertising for Marvel to be mention, or do they hold out there hand to the film company and say "Cough Up"?

This is how this works because it doesn't work the same for all. If a film mentions a character belonging to another company of any kind, it's full and legal because in the credits they are giving proper credit to the company that owns said character and it's free advertising. Most movie studios do not like to give away free press, so they try and strike a deal for product placement even in mentions of the character but usually if it's dialogue based and one second's worth of time, it's usually passed. If I mention The Thing it's usually just shrugged, if I walk around in a Thing t-shirt, then the studio will go to Disney/Marvel and say "Give me XX amount of $$ because we are advertising your character" if they don't usually I won't be wearing that shirt. Within your own studio like the DC characters though it's moot. This is kind of why on TV if they are using a Coke can, that everyone knows is a Coke can but Coke didn't pay up the advertising fees its says "Soda" or "Cola" even in the Coke script.

Now with Marvel because they signed over complete perpetual rights to those characters in regards to film likenesses and content, these characters don't exist within the same universe. Basically in Marvel's film universe there is no Spider-Man or Wolverine. This isn't like when Batman mentions Metropolis or if Superman were to mention a masked vigiliante because those rights weren't outsourced. So if Captain America were to mention how they have to go to Reed Richards for something even if he didn't appear, it's a film reference to a character owned perpetually (meaning it never expires) by 20th Century Fox. Marvel Studios would have to pay Fox because Fox could make the case that it could damage their own projects in place especially if they were doing a period piece for example like First Class and something eluded to within a Marvel film said otherwise. Fox can sue (and has) for just the eluding to the idea of Mutants in a Marvel production on Television and won because even the idea of mutants was signed over by Marvel.

When Marvel made those arrangements they were in bankruptcy and unsure if the doors would even remain open passed that point. They literally sweethearted the deals as rich as possible and essentially screwed themselves with Fox, Sony and Universal. Disney lawyers have been working since they purchased Marvel to try and get them out of those deals but they are pretty straightforward. Even introducing or using a character that is a "knock-off" of an owned character is infringement.

You'd get a better shot of them using Jessica Drew Spider-Woman and having her fill the void then actually ever seeing them using a Spider-Man similarity unless the scenarios go into place where both companies sat at a negotiations table and hashed out some sort of agreement.

Essentially the fact that Marvel owns all of those characters doesn't mean crap as far as the film world is concerned because of the original contracts.
 
Re: The Avengers: The Motion Picture Discussion Thread

This is how this works because it doesn't work the same for all. If a film mentions a character belonging to another company of any kind, it's full and legal because in the credits they are giving proper credit to the company that owns said character and it's free advertising. Most movie studios do not like to give away free press, so they try and strike a deal for product placement even in mentions of the character but usually if it's dialogue based and one second's worth of time, it's usually passed. If I mention The Thing it's usually just shrugged, if I walk around in a Thing t-shirt, then the studio will go to Disney/Marvel and say "Give me XX amount of $$ because we are advertising your character" if they don't usually I won't be wearing that shirt. Within your own studio like the DC characters though it's moot. This is kind of why on TV if they are using a Coke can, that everyone knows is a Coke can but Coke didn't pay up the advertising fees its says "Soda" or "Cola" even in the Coke script.

Now with Marvel because they signed over complete perpetual rights to those characters in regards to film likenesses and content, these characters don't exist within the same universe. Basically in Marvel's film universe there is no Spider-Man or Wolverine. This isn't like when Batman mentions Metropolis or if Superman were to mention a masked vigiliante because those rights weren't outsourced. So if Captain America were to mention how they have to go to Reed Richards for something even if he didn't appear, it's a film reference to a character owned perpetually (meaning it never expires) by 20th Century Fox. Marvel Studios would have to pay Fox because Fox could make the case that it could damage their own projects in place especially if they were doing a period piece for example like First Class and something eluded to within a Marvel film said otherwise. Fox can sue (and has) for just the eluding to the idea of Mutants in a Marvel production on Television and won because even the idea of mutants was signed over by Marvel.

When Marvel made those arrangements they were in bankruptcy and unsure if the doors would even remain open passed that point. They literally sweethearted the deals as rich as possible and essentially screwed themselves with Fox, Sony and Universal. Disney lawyers have been working since they purchased Marvel to try and get them out of those deals but they are pretty straightforward. Even introducing or using a character that is a "knock-off" of an owned character is infringement.

You'd get a better shot of them using Jessica Drew Spider-Woman and having her fill the void then actually ever seeing them using a Spider-Man similarity unless the scenarios go into place where both companies sat at a negotiations table and hashed out some sort of agreement.

Essentially the fact that Marvel owns all of those characters doesn't mean crap as far as the film world is concerned because of the original contracts.

Wouldn't it be different though depending on whether or not they're referring to the film Thing or the comic Thing? And if there's no distinction as to which, where does the default lie? I was always under the assumption it lies with those who own the original intellectual property.
 
Re: The Avengers: The Motion Picture Discussion Thread

No.

Here is the blurb from the X-Men fight:

In October 1993, Marvel and Fox signed an agreement (the “1993 Agreement”) pursuant to which Marvel licensed to Fox all the rights that Fox may require in order to produce, distribute, exploit, advertise, promote, and publicize theatrical motion pictures based on the “X-Men” comic book series.   The “X-Men” comic book series, referred to in the Agreement as the “Property,” includes the X-Men Characters, specifically the “core” Characters and the Characters of the “X-Universe”;  their origin stories;  storylines from individual comic books;  and “all other elements relating to the Property and the Characters.”

The agreements are the same for Sony and all other Fox characters. Anything comic book, animated or otherwise that gets put on screen in a theatrical motion picture is a no-go without Fox's consent.

They completely screwed themselves in those 93 contracts.
 
Re: The Avengers: The Motion Picture Discussion Thread

No.

Here is the blurb from the X-Men fight:

The agreements are the same for Sony and all other Fox characters. Anything comic book, animated or otherwise that gets put on screen in a theatrical motion picture is a no-go without Fox's consent.

They completely screwed themselves in those 93 contracts.

Yeah, they pretty much ____ed themselves. How the hell did lawyers not catch that? :cuckoo:

So if Fox saw fit, they could even produce their own comicbooks based on those characters and run direct competition with Marvel so long as it was under the guise of promotions for an upcoming film? :lol
 
Re: The Avengers: The Motion Picture Discussion Thread

Not exactly because Sony/Fox are limited to what is on-screen and only what plays within a theater, they just stop Marvel from using their own characters in their own things on the big screen as well but when you see those movie tie-ins to films comics, Marvel pays 20th Century Fox for them, which is also why we see them all the time from DC but rarely from Marvel.
 
Re: The Avengers: The Motion Picture Discussion Thread

Not exactly because Sony/Fox are limited to what is on-screen and only what plays within a theater, they just stop Marvel from using their own characters in their own things on the big screen as well but when you see those movie tie-ins to films comics, Marvel pays 20th Century Fox for them, which is also why we see them all the time from DC but rarely from Marvel.

When do the rights revert back? If ever?
 
Re: The Avengers: The Motion Picture Discussion Thread

Never, Marvel signed them away for "life". There are only two ways that the rights would lapse:

1. The other studios does not use the license in a film for "x" amount of years. The thing is that the "x" is different for each studio, but the agreement includes "spin-offs" so if they make a Venom movie that holds the rights to Spider-Man. I'm unsure about the timeframes but I believe it's somewhere between 5 to 7 years. Fox could have theoretically lost the rights to the X-Men since X3 was in 2006 and FC was in 2011 and the film would not have been within that window but their creation of the Wolverine: Origins film secured it.

It also states though that if they made a crappy film that they didn't want to put out or if a production got scrapped, if they film something with those characters and put it into even one theater around the world and sell tickets to it, that it renews the rights completely. It could be a 20 minute thing and count.

2: Marvel buys them back. The thing is that Sony and Fox both said they have no interest in selling since Disney's purchase of the company. Sony considered selling Spider-Man I remember back after Spider-Man 3 wasn't received that well and the majority of the cast refused to even think of another one at the time but their undisclosed price included the amount of money possibly to be made from merchandising as well as theater revenue worldwide not just domestically and I believe that Marvel scoffed.
 
Re: The Avengers: The Motion Picture Discussion Thread

Never, Marvel signed them away for "life". There are only two ways that the rights would lapse:

1. The other studios does not use the license in a film for "x" amount of years. The thing is that the "x" is different for each studio, but the agreement includes "spin-offs" so if they make a Venom movie that holds the rights to Spider-Man. I'm unsure about the timeframes but I believe it's somewhere between 5 to 7 years. Fox could have theoretically lost the rights to the X-Men since X3 was in 2006 and FC was in 2011 and the film would not have been within that window but their creation of the Wolverine: Origins film secured it.

It also states though that if they made a crappy film that they didn't want to put out or if a production got scrapped, if they film something with those characters and put it into even one theater around the world and sell tickets to it, that it renews the rights completely. It could be a 20 minute thing and count.

2: Marvel buys them back. The thing is that Sony and Fox both said they have no interest in selling since Disney's purchase of the company. Sony considered selling Spider-Man I remember back after Spider-Man 3 wasn't received that well and the majority of the cast refused to even think of another one at the time but their undisclosed price included the amount of money possibly to be made from merchandising as well as theater revenue worldwide not just domestically and I believe that Marvel scoffed.

I remember something about that being the reason the Corman FF was done. So looks like we get to enjoy a fractured Marvel universe indefinitely. WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE. :monkey1
 
Re: The Avengers: The Motion Picture Discussion Thread

At the end of the day. No Spidey in the Avengers is 2 thumbs way up in my opinion.

Disney will sort it out in the end. Even it it means sending hired mercs into the Sony VIPs homes dressed in Goofy costumes and applying some "hard negotiating" techniques.
 
Re: The Avengers: The Motion Picture Discussion Thread

To be honest, Avengers deserves to be kept as close to the source material as possible. Even though the Marvel film-verse is not the 616. I for one am happy about it because, not only has no film like this ever been tried, but I've yet to see a superhero film with too many characters really succeed. X-Men First Class is close BUT so far away from the source its almost unrecognizable.
 
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