The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug

[The Ween]

Three hours of...nothing. If any film never had a plot - it is this.
It should have been called 'The Legolas: A CGI Mess of Rubbish'

I love The Lord of the Rings with all my heart; I love the books and the films but I think Peter Jackson has lost his way a bit with these. It's all CGI - it's so polished and computer rendered it looks constantly fake.

Not one plot was finished in this film: Legolas ran off after the orc; Gandalf is still stuck with his back to that rock; and nothing happened with the Dwarves or Bilbo (who apparently did appear in the film at some points).

Everytime Legolas and Kate from Lost appeared, I cringed. Smaug was underwhelming - I half expected to see a 'Gingotts' sign behind him.

I'll stick to the book because this was just awful.

Plots were supposed to be finished. That's why there's a third movie.

 

[Adolfo]

Haven't seen the movie yet but will soon.
However an acquaintance of mine who's a big Tolkien fan had seen it and had mixed feelings. He said one thing that really bugged him is that Smaug had sway or some power over the ring. He said it didn't make sense since no connection between the two in the movie or the books is established.
So what's the scoop?

Smaug is massive in regards to evil, his size as well as his intelligence...I could see that maybe PJ adding in terms of old and evil creatures sensing the power of the ring. It bothered me up to a point. But was a big change from the book. If bilbo and dwarves acted like they did to the book Smaug like they did to the film Smaug ...BBQ at Erebor

 

[Adolfo]

Plots were supposed to be finished. That's why there's a third movie.

Money too, let's not forget the money to be made too...

 

[JAWS]

For the review To knock DOS while commending Catching Fire for showing how to do a "real " Middle film is pretty silly. The Hobbit, and to a lesser extent , the LOTR films are more episodic in nature. To me it's like starting Game of Thrones with episode 5 of a season 1 and not liking it because things didn't get resolved in the episode.

I'm also amazed that some of the criticisms being heaped on These two hobbit films can also be applied to LOTR. AUJ and FOTR even followed a similar Pattern

Shire to Rivendell, Rivendell to Misty Mountains and then under them, then ends with an Ambush.

Also, saying nothing happened is a lot different than saying their was no character growth.

I think the comparison had more to do with trilogies and not so much Catching Fire... It's because DOS is just a true middle part of a story that it falls flat for some (me). This is coming at it from a pure cinematic point of view. Catching fire was a true begining middle and end with a cliff hanger... DOS was a Middle.... With a cliff hanger. What I myself keep trying to stress that as a stand alone film that does not work as well and left me feeling empty.

I did think that some of the criticism could be applied to TTT... And I think in a way I have. However there are great character moments and the film is allowed to breath with these quiet character moments. We are allowed to not only take in the characters but also Middle earth. My fav parts of the LOTR films and the first Hobbit film are not the action scenes but the character moments. TTT while not perfect had some good character moments. Just not as many as the other two. Something DOS was missing. Both are effected by being the "middle" part of a story. And while Return of the King helped TTT story wise I still find watching TTT to be less rewarding of an experience compared to the other two.

Also I keep saying nothing happened because as a story nothing did.. Sure there was lots of action. But since the characters were not given a ton to do and there was no real story to tell (only a middle) it feels like not a whole lot happened. Even my friend who enjoyed the film much more then I did said "it does not seem like there was much of a story in this one"

I mean I guess if you want to say there was lot's of action and things to look at...Then yes. A lot happened... But nothing that I found that was crucial to the characters or the plot of the story.. Not that made an appearance in this film anyways.

PS - I am really enjoying this conversation and hope that you take no insult to my views... And while I don't agree with yours or Josh's I do respect the different views and opinions and have attempted to see where you are coming from.

Like I said. I love these PJ middle Earth films. FOTR is in my top 10. I was surprised when I was let down by DOS and thought a second viewing would help... I was even more surprised when I liked it less.

Like I said before I am really hoping that part 3 will help me enjoy 2 more.

 

[The Josh]

Not in this ONE film their not... At least I don't feel they were. Bear guy... Nothing, Captured by elves.. Eh.. So what.. We see that he still don't like the Elf king.. I got that form the first film. Spiders.. Cool scene but it was turned into nothing more then an action sequence...

Where were the great moments of Character interaction? Where were the great Panoramic shots of unseen Middle Earth Enviroments?? Like I said before... I don't think any of the main characters had very much dialogue.

Take Balin for example... Such a great character in the first film... Given only like three lines to speak.

I'm sure you're not alone. Beorn's introduction is important as he comes into play in film three. The spider sequence is important as it shows that Bilbo isn't the same Hobbit that left the Shire and we get the see the naming of Sting. Both these happen in the book. They get captured by elves in the book the movie way is a little better. The stuff in Thranduil's halls is fantastic. You get the great argument between Thorin and Thranduil. The hate that exists between the two and the greed of both is really well done. It also gives us a great character moment between Tauriel and Kili. Despite the hate between the leaders two can try to understand each other. We also get to see Bilbo show off his burglar skills and prove his worth to Thorin/company. The barrel sequence has a couple issues but is a little more exciting for most folks than the book sequence. Lake Town introduces us to Bard and what he's all about. He's kind of important to the story. You also get to see the corrupt nature of The Master and how bad Lake Town is. This plays into things in the future. I love most of the stuff in Erebor. Bilbo v Smaug was great. I would have taken some of the action out and put other stuff in earlier in the movie.

There are some nice character moments. Kili/Tauriel, Balin/Bilbo, Bilbo/Balin, Bilbo/Smaug. It had more than the book does really at this point. As far as the panoramic shots the areas we visit don't lead to much of that to be honest. I don't think you will find any place in NZ that looks like Mirkwood, Thranduil's halls, Lake Town, and inside of Erebor. All of these places had to be done the way they were done.

I thought there was plenty of dialogue.

 

[The Ween]

Haven't seen the movie yet but will soon.
However an acquaintance of mine who's a big Tolkien fan had seen it and had mixed feelings. He said one thing that really bugged him is that Smaug had sway or some power over the ring. He said it didn't make sense since no connection between the two in the movie or the books is established.
So what's the scoop?

Sway over the ring? I didn't see any.

 

[The Chev]

Sway over the ring? I didn't see any.

Agreed.

Spoiler

The only think Smaug did was able to sense that Bilbo had something gold on him, and it wasn't normal and was far more precious. To which the ring kind of started to go nuts for a second forcing Bilbo to remove it. The Ring has a mind of it's own wasn't swayed by smaug at all.

 

[jye4ever]

I just like how Smag's eye resembles Sauron's eye.

 

[jye4ever]

I can't get over how much fun I had watching AUJ EE lastnight.

Thorin walking out of that burning tree to take on Azog was a bad *** scene, one of the best in the entire series!

So heroic, then BAM! *** kicked by Azog!

That and the Misty Mountain theme kicking in really thunderous when the group was walking over a mountain.

Great stuff.

Sorry, I know this is a DOS thread.

 

[The Chev]

I think the comparison had more to do with trilogies and not so much Catching Fire... It's because DOS is just a true middle part of a story that it falls flat for some (me). This is coming at it from a pure cinematic point of view. Catching fire was a true begining middle and end with a cliff hanger... DOS was a Middle.... With a cliff hanger. What I myself keep trying to stress that as a stand alone film that does not work as well and left me feeling empty.

I did think that some of the criticism could be applied to TTT... And I think in a way I have. However there are great character moments and the film is allowed to breath with these quiet character moments. We are allowed to not only take in the characters but also Middle earth. My fav parts of the LOTR films and the first Hobbit film are not the action scenes but the character moments. TTT while not perfect had some good character moments. Just not as many as the other two. Something DOS was missing. Both are effected by being the "middle" part of a story. And while Return of the King helped TTT story wise I still find watching TTT to be less rewarding of an experience compared to the other two.

Also I keep saying nothing happened because as a story nothing did.. Sure there was lots of action. But since the characters were not given a ton to do and there was no real story to tell (only a middle) it feels like not a whole lot happened. Even my friend who enjoyed the film much more then I did said "it does not seem like there was much of a story in this one"

I mean I guess if you want to say there was lot's of action and things to look at...Then yes. A lot happened... But nothing that I found that was crucial to the characters or the plot of the story.. Not that made an appearance in this film anyways.

PS - I am really enjoying this conversation and hope that you take no insult to my views... And while I don't agree with yours or Josh's I do respect the different views and opinions and have attempted to see where you are coming from.

Like I said. I love these PJ middle Earth films. FOTR is in my top 10. I was surprised when I was let down by DOS and thought a second viewing would help... I was even more surprised when I liked it less.

Like I said before I am really hoping that part 3 will help me enjoy 2 more.

No, not insulted at all. I enjoy polite debate and respectful posters. There's a few arrogant people on this site, so it's always good when a debate remains civil and egoless.

While I do think this as the best pacing out of all the films, I do feel they needed to slow down just a bit. I'm sure the EE will provide more character moments and breathing room.

The problem with character growth is that there's 13 dwarves and not enough time to go around. I know that some think Bilbo took a backseat, but he did do more heroic stuff in this than AUJ. A little more focus is on Thorin but I feel that's the way it should be at this point. As for character growth, Thorin showed some, but not for the better.

I understand the "Nothing happened" comment, but

Spoiler

They did make it to the lonely mountain and confront Smaug. The problem is, the abrupt ending right in the middle of the Climax. Now while I enjoyed it, those types of endings do leave certain people turned off. I can't remember if you read the book, so I'll try to pose this question as if you haven't read the Hobbit. If Smaug had been dealt with in this film, would you have felt the same way?

 

[The Josh]

I can't get over how much fun I had watching AUJ EE lastnight.

Thorin walking out of that burning tree to take on Azog was a bad *** scene, one of the best in the entire series!

So heroic, then BAM! *** kicked by Azog!

That and the Misty Mountain theme kicking in really thunderous when the group was walking over a mountain.

Great stuff.

Sorry, I know this is a DOS thread.

I love the TE version but the EE is the definitive version. 9.25/10 for me.

 

[jye4ever]

I love the TE version but the EE is the definitive version. 9.25/10 for me.

Most reviews said DOS > AUJ, and while I enjoyed DOS I enjoyed AUJ EE even more.

Lets see what DOS EE brings to the table.

 

[The Josh]

Most reviews said DOS > AUJ, and while I enjoyed DOS I enjoyed AUJ EE even more.

Lets see what DOS EE brings to the table.

I'm very torn between the two. IMO they're both pretty fantastic. Not as good as the LOTR Trilogy but it's that way with the books.

 

[Fritz]

Because it's super cheesy and just looks plain bad imo.

I agree with this and thought it was kind of low budget filmish myself.

...That is why I keep stressing that as a stand alone film it sort of fails...

...This film does stand on its own.

I also think as a stand alone film DOS fails. But since it's NOT a stand alone film but part two of a three part series, I wasn't expecting it to stand on it's own.

...Smaug was underwhelming - I half expected to see a 'Gingotts' sign behind him...

I'd have gone with Gandalf just mentioning this stuff but I agree the info would have helped.

This would have worked for me.

 

[The Josh]

I'm sure you're not alone. Beorn's introduction is important as he comes into play in film three. The spider sequence is important as it shows that Bilbo isn't the same Hobbit that left the Shire and we get the see the naming of Sting. Both these happen in the book. They get captured by elves in the book the movie way is a little better. The stuff in Thranduil's halls is fantastic. You get the great argument between Thorin and Thranduil. The hate that exists between the two and the greed of both is really well done. It also gives us a great character moment between Tauriel and Kili. Despite the hate between the leaders two can try to understand each other. We also get to see Bilbo show off his burglar skills and prove his worth to Thorin/company. The barrel sequence has a couple issues but is a little more exciting for most folks than the book sequence. Lake Town introduces us to Bard and what he's all about. He's kind of important to the story. You also get to see the corrupt nature of The Master and how bad Lake Town is. This plays into things in the future. I love most of the stuff in Erebor. Bilbo v Smaug was great. I would have taken some of the action out and put other stuff in earlier in the movie.

There are some nice character moments. Kili/Tauriel, Balin/Bilbo, Bilbo/Balin, Bilbo/Smaug. It had more than the book does really at this point. As far as the panoramic shots the areas we visit don't lead to much of that to be honest. I don't think you will find any place in NZ that looks like Mirkwood, Thranduil's halls, Lake Town, and inside of Erebor. All of these places had to be done the way they were done.

I thought there was plenty of dialogue.

Spoiler

Forgot to mention the start of Thorin's decent into madness. It's going to make his fall in the next film tragic. More so than the book.

 

[RIDDICK]

Desolation of cinematography.

 

[The Josh]

Yeah, I may have let out a little spoiler. This what happens when you have read a book as many time as I have the last 12 years. You tend to not think of these things as spoilers.

 

[pixletwin]

Yeah, I may have let out a little spoiler. This what happens when you have read a book as many time as I have the last 12 years. You tend to not think of these things as spoilers.

Yeah you might want to edit that before it pisses people off.

 

[DiFabio]

Sorry Josh, I'm going to have to have to give you an infraction for that. No hard feelings.

 

[Spartan Rex]

Agreed.

Spoiler

The only think Smaug did was able to sense that Bilbo had something gold on him, and it wasn't normal and was far more precious. To which the ring kind of started to go nuts for a second forcing Bilbo to remove it. The Ring has a mind of it's own wasn't swayed by smaug at all.

Hmmm...
Interesting.
I'll keep that in mind when I watch it.
Thanks for the productive answer.