The Skipper by Iminime & Rainman

[axecutioner18]

Let me just be clear on somethings before people try to think nitpicking is an affront. First, Denny visits and sees these threads everyday. So I dont really need to go up and tell him what changes are being talked about. Im sure a picture speaks a thousand words

Also, Denny might not say this to you, but you must realise that there is something called feasibility involved. Its very easy to photoshop changes, but it doesnt translate to that ease of speed to doing it in hand...adding bulk means literally resculpting the whole lower area, which means ridding hours of careful skin texturing

This sculpt is for a handamade figure which is less that $300, which is an astonishing price compared to quality for what handmade customs really go at. You are NOT paying Rainman prices, not to say that means the effort will be lacklustre. But its an important economic you MUST realise. Redoing a sculpt means more time and more money.

Now you are talking about the sculpt, Im really gonna see what will happen when the 1/6 body will be shown because honestly some of you expect perfection, which is impossible at the current price point. The body for Tony has to be unique, look at the neckpiece which has to fit in the body...

Some of you who are screaming for perfection, should look at your own collections, and you'll see a lot of figures you have probably paid 3 times as much dont really fare much better in terms of sculpt likeness...

Ofcourse Denny will try to deliver the best possible Tony for all of you, and some of you may say its ok, make it a $500 figure... and then tell me how many hardcore Sopranos fans are there to throw $500 on Tony? for an edition size close to 40 or so... oh wait I forgot the edition size on this is lower than their usual 70 or so, do the rest of the math.Edition size small, means cost per figure is much higher however pricing will probably be the same as Denny always tries to keep prices as low as possible.

Like I said, there are a lot of things involved, you can definately want better and better, who doesnt. But at one point look at the prices you pay on so many different things. Frankly I dont nitpick on a figure where I see the price compared to what it delivers is reasonable.

Denny will do his best, so will his team. And I wish you all the best for a figure you all have wanted so much.

 

[armysoldier74b]

with all respect to uscmhicks, as he brought those things up, that the sculpt needs to be improved, i do think the likeness is worse then before. i think in the orignal sculpt the likeness is there, just need to thicken him up, change a bit his eyes (especially at the end they need to be more down and not that high) and tweaking the chin, making it bigger, longer and fat and like uscmhicks making the neck much more thicker then before. i've tried to mix these things together, what uscmhicks showed us combined with the likeness of rainman and some of my suggestions:

left my interpretation, middle rainman, right uscmhicks​

again it's just my thought and oppinions, maybe i'm looking wrong to it and like teddy said, i'm also very happy with how the rainman sculpt looks, but i hope he still can tweak something here and there to get it even better

Still seeing more tony on the far right. Its a mute point anyways so it doesn't matter.

 

[Deckard]

Some of you who are screaming for perfection, should look at your own collections, and you'll see a lot of figures you have probably paid 3 times as much dont really fare much better in terms of sculpt likeness....

So it's not $800 like a RM figure who cares, that price isn't for a better likeness, it's for artist regonition and skill.

It sounds like your saying it's ok to have something less then perfect because its only so much money. Why can't it be cheap and perfect? It's a matter of working a little harder, simple. The sculpt needs work. No one is talking ____ on Denny or his team, we just want the best.

As to why or looking at our collections, I have, I've looked long and hard and withered it down to only the perfect figures, because frankly the others that are only close enough next to them don't cut it. That would be the case here, I'd have Tony next to perfect figures like RM's Dude, Trevor's Walt, HT's Jack, or EB's MIB and Tony would look mediocre, outdated and end up on ebay. So I'd rather not even waste my time on anything less then perfect in this hobby anymore, theres too much that is perfect and too little money to spend on those as it is.

That doesn't mean it needs to cost more, it just means the sculptor has to be willing to have pride in his work and take a little critism to improve himself and his hobby/passion.

 

[turbo.VS.ozone]

I hope Denny considers these corrections. I can't speak for everyone, but I'd pay more to get these changes. That sculpt is almost there, and so far its an amazing effort/offering, it be a bummer to let it go with out those mods. This really can be something!

 

[Deckard]

I hope Denny considers these corrections. I can't speak for everyone, but I'd pay more to get these changes. That sculpt is almost perfect, and so far its an amazing effort/offering, it be a bummer to let it go with out those mods. This really can be something!

Too often people come so close and then just say done. A little extra effort all across the board and there could be so many better figures out there instead of for example, 12 differant mediocre close but not perfect Tyler Durdens.

With HT upping their game the way they have on most figures, most customs are becoming second rate again. That shouldn't be the case as theres no pressure to get done by a certain date, no studio or actor interferance, and it's being done by someone that obviously has a passion for that subject instead of someone just doing their job.

 

[armysoldier74b]

If you build it they will come.

I would rather pay $500 for a quality Tony that is special and that I will cherish forever than a $300 one that I won't even buy.

I can't speak for everyone in here though, but Im guessing those who could afford a $300 figure can come up with $200 more for something special and something they will be proud of

 

[uscmhicks]

I agree with Deckard , I don't think anyone here is screaming for perfection , just making suggestions for what could be some changes to make this a real home run. If it does affect the price and time of Iminime's team so much that they can't afford to make the changes then they obviously wont happen but if we're shown a photo of the sculpt as potential buyers I think we should be able to discuss and request possible changes.

Subway's Jack Torrence comes to mind when I think of a great figure at only $100.00 with two sculpts , an outfit , a great accessory , decent body and box.

I've seen numerous ( cheaper ) projects end up with great results because of " nit picking ". I understand you're saying not to expect what we're discussing as possible changes but it comes across negative towards potential buyers when it really sounds as if you're saying not to expect too much from your criticism. It doesn't seem like a very good long term business plan to me.

I suppose as mentioned though I'm one of the people who'd rather pay $500.00 for a near perfect figure than one that's too thin and looks a bit like the character for $300.00 so it's hard to make a point when this is all based on opinion.

 

[uscmhicks]

If you build it they will come.

I would rather pay $500 for a quality Tony that is special and that I will cherish forever than a $300 one that I won't even buy.

I can't speak for everyone in here though, but Im guessing those who could afford a $300 figure can come up with $200 more for something special and something they will be proud of

Bingo but honestly I think it's a bit far fetched to add $200.00 per figure to add a bit of bulk to the face and make the other small changes noted.

 

[meth head]

I really do hear what axe is saying. Time is money and I agree that you can only spend so much time on a sculpt before it becomes non cost effective.

The thing is Deckard to me and you this is a hobby but unfortunately it isn't for everybody. For Iminime it is a business that does need to account itself like every other profit making organisation. It would be great if Rainman would tweak it possibly but I could understand why he might not. If he doesn't it is still a purchase for me and by the sounds of it not for you.

 

[Deckard]

Is it a buissness if it's not legal? If it was a buissness shouldn't he be getting likeness rights? He can forego that, so why not spend the extra effort and money on getting it more accurate? He doesn't have to pay David Chase, HBO, and James, he pays the sculptor, he can simply say "sorry I'm not happy with your efforts and you need to improve them if you want to collect your pay."

Either way if he wants that money he needs to put forth the best product possible or he's limiting his clientel and thus, not a great buissnessman.

 

[meth head]

Is it a buissness if it's not legal? If it was a buissness shouldn't he be getting likeness rights? He can forego that, so why not spend the extra effort and money on getting it more accurate? He doesn't have to pay David Chase, HBO, and James, he pays the sculptor, he can simply say "sorry I'm not happy with your efforts and you need to improve them if you want to collect your pay."

Either way if he wants that money he needs to put forth the best product possible or he's limiting his clientel and thus, not a great buissnessman.

We had a whole debate on the morality of this issue in another thread.

The fact is Iminime are a business because they have outgoings and wages to pay like every other successful business out there.

It would be nice to see a little extra weight added but I can only guess at how much effort that would require. I am happy either way.

 

[Raymond F.]

Have not chimed in yet. Obviously many of you know I'm one of the biggest Tony fans around. Was skeptical about this project for various reasons...

to weigh in on the discussion to this point...
I'm not to jazzed about the idea of a bathrobe. At all. That is unless if and only if its a secondary accessory, then it might be OK. But as far as his Iconic look? it's the furthest thing from.

As for the sculpt, personally I'm on the not so impressed side. I defended Alfred and Rahs and think they were great. This Tony head IMO is not up to rainman's efforts, picky or not I don't think the likeness, detail level and accuracy is there. Let me also say that I still think Rainman is the best on HT/EB artist on the planet. To his credit, a fat bald guy head is not something we see a lot of, it proposes a unique set of rules that don;t apply to most portraits.

I won't be getting it personally, even as big a fan as I am. That is unless some improvements are made.. Even if the refinement is higher than anything we've seen with this subject. I'm getting incredibly selective as my collection is becoming bloated and I don't want to spend endless amount of money. I have to be at least 80% happy with something.

To the argument of price point by Axe it's completely justified and alludes to the amazing benefit of Denny's team providing goods at the price they do. He's right that there might not be too many hardcore Sopranos fans that want to throw down 500+ for this. But sadly I am one of them. I'd put in double that if it meant I'd be getting something that I felt happy about.

 

[axecutioner18]

OMG! I didnt know people had such entitlement issues, and such little lack of what real life production and schedule costs are!! I tried to explain somethings from a production basis point of view, and people take it like as if its defending 'low quality' or 'less effort'? Few like Teddy and Ray understand what Im trying to say... but some of you!!

You are comparing Trev's Walt to this? Do you know how long Trev took to sculpt Walt? Did Trev even announce these sculpts and do them in deadlines? I know Trev and I know how he works, I know which of his sculpts come with deadlines and which ones dont, as he invests months of his leisure time on them.

As for the comparison with Subway's jack torrance its hilarious! Thats a mass produced figure OF COURSE its $100 divide porduction cost by no of editions!! its paintjob IS of a $100 figure... what quality clothing does it have? These are handmade resin well painted and well tailored customs... and you compare them to a bootlegged mass produced collectible? Yes for $100 Subway's Jack is excellent EXACTLY my point

As for not having to pay a license, equals money saved on business... dude, your lack of economics is glaring. Im no Iminime employee but I work in production companies, I have consulted for Engineering/Construction as well as IT Firms... when you have a hired group of people under you. You dont work like its a hobby doing things in your own sweet time... you do things which serve the best interests of the majority and the company itself.

Sheesh... I tried to say, be a little realistic before going all harshly criticising etc etc and you come up with all this! Then like I said, entitlement issues are so strong with you that you totally do not grasp what I said about $300 and $500 figures. I did say HARDCORE fans like you WILL buy it for that $500... but the casual fans on the fence too are important for the company. As the minorty of you people will not add up the numbers to sell out an edition size of 50 or so...

Please understand what I am trying to explain before going gung-ho with the entitlement.

Remember Denny himself took a big risk choosing to do this character as ofcourse it doesnt command the kind of pull that other characters have, specially in the Asian market... and what Im saying is before you label it a solid disappointment and pick everything apart, think of what is feasible or not from the producers point of view.

Ofcourse Denny will read all of this, Rainman too... Denny has handled all this before and Im sure he will handle it well as usual.

 

[Bullet]

I really don't think anybody who has been making suggestions for improvements had any malice in mind. They purely (myself included) just want to see the best figure possible. I'm also certain the majority of them understand the fundamentals of economics with regards to running a business.

Tony is a character I was initially interested in but having seen the apparently wont be amended at any cost sculpt I shall more than likely pass. Just as I did with Neo and Agent Smith as for me they are not up to scratch, simply my opinion no offence intended to anybody who worked on them or who has decided to purchase them. They just weren't in my mind good enough for my collection.

The vast majority of the members on here want perfection (myself included) and what is wrong with that? I completely get the every business has over heads etc etc argument but why not strive for perfection? Members like USCMHicks have made some excellent suggestions for change and should they be implemented the sculpt would be much better for it. As more than a couple have said before me I'd far rather pay $500 for a perfect figure than pay $300 for a figure that is showing the signs of financial constraint. I think Iminime are an excellent budding company and I already have there Gordon in hand and Det Mills and Somerset on the way, all 3 examples of just how well Iminime can do. Those figures are outstanding and in the case of Det Mills & Somerset Denny and his team took on board numerous suggestions on how to improve the figures all for the better.

My personal opinion is and again I mean no disrespect by this is that Iminime maybe need to slow down a little. They have so many figures on the go atm perhaps it would be better to put 1 or 2 of them on hold in order to focus all there attention on one particular figure. Again just a suggestion as I do not have an intimate knowledge of how Denny and Iminime conduct their business.

Lastly Axe I think you maybe need to lay off some of the people on here. Constructive criticism is a great tool that many excellent artist's on here utilize in order to push there work to the next level. I'm keeping tabs on pretty much all of Imimime's current project threads (as I am interested in potentially purchasing more than one of them) and every time somebody tries to make a suggestion on how to improve you break out with the 'It wont be changed' 'What do you expect for the price your paying' arguments. I do not know you personally but most of the post I read from you tend to come across as fairly hostile border line condescending. I do not understand the mentality of limiting a project like that if it can't be done properly at the price of $300 then either increase the price to a level that it is near perfect or scrap the project.

I will be interested to see how this guy finishes up as its a figure I am definitely interested in. However the sculpt needs work.

 

[Praedane]

That looks FANTASTIC!

 

[Deckard]

OMG! I didnt know people had such entitlement issues, and such little lack of what real life production and schedule costs are!! I tried to explain somethings from a production basis point of view, and people take it like as if its defending 'low quality' or 'less effort'? Few like Teddy and Ray understand what Im trying to say... but some of you!!

You are comparing Trev's Walt to this? Do you know how long Trev took to sculpt Walt? Did Trev even announce these sculpts and do them in deadlines? I know Trev and I know how he works, I know which of his sculpts come with deadlines and which ones dont, as he invests months of his leisure time on them.

As for the comparison with Subway's jack torrance its hilarious! Thats a mass produced figure OF COURSE its $100 divide porduction cost by no of editions!! its paintjob IS of a $100 figure... what quality clothing does it have? These are handmade resin well painted and well tailored customs... and you compare them to a bootlegged mass produced collectible? Yes for $100 Subway's Jack is excellent EXACTLY my point

As for not having to pay a license, equals money saved on business... dude, your lack of economics is glaring. Im no Iminime employee but I work in production companies, I have consulted for Engineering/Construction as well as IT Firms... when you have a hired group of people under you. You dont work like its a hobby doing things in your own sweet time... you do things which serve the best interests of the majority and the company itself.

Sheesh... I tried to say, be a little realistic before going all harshly criticising etc etc and you come up with all this! Then like I said, entitlement issues are so strong with you that you totally do not grasp what I said about $300 and $500 figures. I did say HARDCORE fans like you WILL buy it for that $500... but the casual fans on the fence too are important for the company. As the minorty of you people will not add up the numbers to sell out an edition size of 50 or so...

Please understand what I am trying to explain before going gung-ho with the entitlement.

Remember Denny himself took a big risk choosing to do this character as ofcourse it doesnt command the kind of pull that other characters have, specially in the Asian market... and what Im saying is before you label it a solid disappointment and pick everything apart, think of what is feasible or not from the producers point of view.

Ofcourse Denny will read all of this, Rainman too... Denny has handled all this before and Im sure he will handle it well as usual.

Your the only person coming off with any sense of entitlement, and the only one insulting people, why are you taking any of this personally is beyond me, you talk to the guy but your not a part of his team.

My lack of econimics is glaring? Kid the fact is he couldn't make this happen period if he had to pay for licensing rights, he's only on the schedule he puts forward. If he is doing this as a full time job, it's only a matter of time before he will get shut down by one of the various studios who monitor this kind of activity. He has all the time in the world and can always work to refine one project while going forward on another and then coming back to this one later. He is paying for a service and if the people he is serving aren't content they he needs to take that up for the people working for him.

Basically your arguement is Tony Soprano doesn't deserve a figure at all because he isn't a big character, so be happy you get anything. ? wow you must have zero idea what your talking about in terms of his "pull". You keep bringing up all these random price points that don't have anything to do with anything.

Are you saying that if from the get go this was $500 instead of $300 the quality of the sculpt would be better? Your logic is staggering and embarassing, and imo far more insulting to the sculptor. I have no doubt he put forth a great effort and did his best, but now he should go back and try a bit harder in some of the areas virtually everyone agrees need work. If he doesn't then that money he apparently needs oh so much won't be coming from as many of us as it could be.

 

[Bullet]

Your the only person coming off with any sense of entitlement, and the only one insulting people, why are you taking any of this personally is beyond me, you talk to the guy but your not a part of his team.

My lack of econimics is glaring? Kid the fact is he couldn't make this happen period if he had to pay for licensing rights, he's only on the schedule he puts forward. If he is doing this as a full time job, it's only a matter of time before he will get shut down by one of the various studios who monitor this kind of activity. He has all the time in the world and can always work to refine one project while going forward on another and then coming back to this one later. He is paying for a service and if the people he is serving aren't content they he needs to take that up for the people working for him.

Basically your arguement is Tony Soprano doesn't deserve a figure at all because he isn't a big character, so be happy you get anything. ? wow you must have zero idea what your talking about in terms of his "pull". You keep bringing up all these random price points that don't have anything to do with anything.

Are you saying that if from the get go this was $500 instead of $300 the quality of the sculpt would be better? Your logic is staggering and embarassing, and imo far more insulting to the sculptor. I have no doubt he put forth a great effort and did his best, but now he should go back and try a bit harder in some of the areas virtually everyone agrees need work. If he doesn't then that money he apparently needs oh so much won't be coming from as many of us as it could be.

 

[meth head]

I think there is a valid argument for both sides.

Let's hope that Iminime/Rainman will consider tweaking for the benefit of the majority. I have made myself clear that I am happy whatever and that still stands

 

[Deckard]

I think there is a valid argument for both sides.

Let's hope that Iminime/Rainman will consider tweaking for the benefit of the majority. I have made myself clear that I am happy whatever and that still stands

Agreed, I just would rather hear anything at this point from Denny himself or RM himself, as we all know they come and post here, so I don't see why Axe is taking it upon himself to speak for them.

So far it sounds like all he is doing is misinterpreting criticism, misplacing agression, and insulting Denny's potenital customers, which to me is more detrimental then any prelim pics that we don't know are final or not yet.

 

[axecutioner18]

Ok Deckard lets be honest here... all that art and its price etc etc I know sculptors and hey you expect there to be no difference between a $400 and a $600? I have seen sculpts of private commissions by the same sculptor at different price range. Yes there is art involved. Yes every artists wants to do as much as he can for something he is being paid to do. BUT the incentive for an artpiece differs from the commissioned amount. Please note this has nothing to do with the current product in question. But since you raised the topic of art vs money etc let me just tell you that your ideal world idea of art being unbound doesnt work in any art based industry where art is commissioned to be performed

Secondly, every customer is important for iminime, but in the world you cant please everyone. So like every project the naysayers will be there

I have repeated myself AGAIN and AGAIN but somehow some of you selectively miss out the part where I say I am ALL IN for improvements... BUT before dismissing the figure and sculpt as a fail try to see the good and the feasability aspect.
Honestly I was quite surprised that this sculpt had such a negative reaction. I personally wasnt a fan of the Alfred sculpt and made no qualms about it. Was there any changes made to the insurmounting crticism? No
Comparitively the criticism thrown here seems a little too harsh and unwarranted IMO

And when I tried to explain that incase there are no changes not to be surprised and state the reasons why, people take that as a naysay and oppositional stance from me.

Like I said, Denny will handle everything so let him just assure you guys on what can be done. Personally IMO I think its a great sculpt. Are Iminime's sculpts perfect? No, they are a young company and will slowly learn on the way... Do I think the improvements on the sculpts can help? Yes... Do I think they will be difficult to redo? Yes... Do I think Rainman will redo them? Not sure...