The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC ( Comic and Un-aired Spoilers unwelcome!)

[Kibagami]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

Yeah issue wise it was maybe 2-3 issues. A large portion of the story at that time takes place at a prison and im not even sure if they are going to even show that this season.

At SDCC the writer of the comic series said he was pretty much taken out of the equation now, no im starting to see what he means.

Not to say I'm not happy with this show but seriously, after reading that SDCC comment of yours I'm starting to wonder how far this show will deviate from the comic book. I hope the story does go there because that was the best story arc.

On a lighter note; I bought the first volume of the walking dead compendium for dirt cheap at Barnes and noble; the first place I discovered the walking dead.

 

[BrianK]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

Disagree. Right and wrong decisions are exponentially more important. The right decision keeps you save and the wrong decision gets you killed. Keeping those walkers in the barn was wrong. Eventually, there'd be too many to contain, they'd break out and the group would have a herd to deal with. Lives would likely be lost when they broke out. Better to deal with the issue while it's still relatively safe. Yes, it's a wake-up call for Hershall, but he can't deny what he saw.

Do not get me wrong. These decision can cause serious and severe consequences but morality has to be taken out when survival is in question. Hershel is allowing his religious beliefs to cloud his judgment. He believes that we should not kill but he is in denial that these people are dead. We also have to understand that Rick is still trying to make decsions based on the old society's ways. As you watch the show, these outdated notions are slowly leaving him. Shane did not believe in these social norms before society fell.

 

[Kabukiman]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

Is it weird that upon first viewing I find Shane despicable. Then upon the second viewing I find myself agreeing with him?

Nope. He's totally in the right, but he's also a ____ about it.

After everybody grabbed guns and then Rick comes fumbling through the field trying to herd a zombie, I actually lol'd. That made Rick look absolutely ridiculous. He's got a lot of work ahead of him if he's going to get his leadership position back, imo.

 

[BrianK]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

Nope. He's totally in the right, but he's also a ____ about it.

After everybody grabbed guns and then Rick comes fumbling through the field trying to herd a zombie, I actually lol'd. That made Rick look absolutely ridiculous. He's got a lot of work ahead of him if he's going to get his leadership position back, imo.

I still cannot stand Shane but I understand his position. He is all about survival. As he told Andrea, he takes emotion out of his decision.

 

[Michael Crawford]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

He meant you can't get caught up in philosophical questions of what is morally right or wrong when the world is in survival mode.

Right and wrong - moral right and wrong - are far more important in this type of world than any other. It's easy to do the 'right' thing when you're sipping a latte at the Starbucks while perusing the net. It's also meaningless. In situations of extreme danger and survival, doing the right thing is what makes leaders and heroes. Doing just what you believe you must to survive and using that as your justification...well, the news is currently filled with people using that same alibi for all sorts of 'wrong' behavior.

The zombies aren't the threat - they are just a force of nature now, like a tornado or flood. If humanity got it's act together, it could survive and flourish again. But if you believe that when the going gets tough you can toss out the concept of good and evil, right and wrong, and merely do whatever you think you need to, then the remaining humans are doomed to destroy each other.

 

[Mister Ski]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

Nope. He's totally in the right, but he's also a ____ about it.

After everybody grabbed guns and then Rick comes fumbling through the field trying to herd a zombie, I actually lol'd. That made Rick look absolutely ridiculous. He's got a lot of work ahead of him if he's going to get his leadership position back, imo.

I don't think Rick has lost his leadership position. No one is going to want to follow Shane (except maybe Andrea) and I don't think Shane really wants to lead.

Rick's shooting of Sophia is the beginning of his journey to becoming a "tougher" leader.

 

[pixletwin]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

I don't think Rick has lost his leadership position. No one is going to want to follow Shane (except maybe Andrea) and I don't think Shane really wants to lead.

Rick's shooting of Sophia is the beginning of his journey to becoming a "tougher" leader.

Exactly. If anything, allowing Rick to shoot Sophia cemented Rick as the leader.

 

[Michael Crawford]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

I don't think Rick has lost his leadership position. No one is going to want to follow Shane (except maybe Andrea) and I don't think Shane really wants to lead.

Rick's shooting of Sophia is the beginning of his journey to becoming a "tougher" leader.

I'd agree - and I think they are setting up an interesting situation with Andrea and Shane. She's going to be gung ho defending him at first - but he's going to eventually do something that makes it impossible to ignore his spiral into violence, and it seems awfully likely that Andrea will be deeply tied in either as the object of that violence, or perhaps as the person that is so affronted by it that she kills him. It could certainly be an interesting situation...and if:

Spoiler

Michonne does show up, it's not really neceesary to have two bad ass chicks alive (or in the group) at the same time...

 

[Mister Ski]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

Right and wrong - moral right and wrong - are far more important in this type of world than any other. It's easy to do the 'right' thing when you're sipping a latte at the Starbucks while perusing the net. It's also meaningless. In situations of extreme danger and survival, doing the right thing is what makes leaders and heroes. Doing just what you believe you must to survive and using that as your justification...well, the news is currently filled with people using that same alibi for all sorts of 'wrong' behavior.

The zombies aren't the threat - they are just a force of nature now, like a tornado or flood. If humanity got it's act together, it could survive and flourish again. But if you believe that when the going gets tough you can toss out the concept of good and evil, right and wrong, and merely do whatever you think you need to, then the remaining humans are doomed to destroy each other.

Who "defines" what is right and wrong in this new world? Like it or not, the rules have changed and you can't live solely by the old rules anymore. You have to adapt to survive. The struggle comes in trying to maintain a balance between your "old" self and the new person you need to become in order to survive in this new world. Right now, Shane has fully embraced his new self while Rick has tried maintaining his old self. Both of them can become more effective leaders by adapting to the current situation. Shane - by maintaining a balance with his old self and Rick by embracing a balance with his new self. I think Rick will make that journey, but Shane won't because he doesn't seem to be the type to learn from decisions - he is always right in his book - and I think he is starting to really like the person he has become with no societal mores to judge his actions.

BTW, the zombies are still the threat - force of nature or not. They are the threat. Period.

 

[thenammagazine]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

Do not get me wrong. These decision can cause serious and severe consequences but morality has to be taken out when survival is in question. Hershel is allowing his religious beliefs to cloud his judgment. He believes that we should not kill but he is in denial that these people are dead. We also have to understand that Rick is still trying to make decsions based on the old society's ways. As you watch the show, these outdated notions are slowly leaving him. Shane did not believe in these social norms before society fell.

I agree. Which is why, like him or hate him, Shane's actions regarding the walkers are not only appropriate, but entirely necessary. Regardless of his intentions, selfless or selfish, what he did was better for the group and Hershall's family.

Who "defines" what is right and wrong in this new world? Like it or not, the rules have changed and you can't live solely by the old rules anymore. You have to adapt to survive. The struggle comes in trying to maintain a balance between your "old" self and the new person you need to become in order to survive in this new world. Right now, Shane has fully embraced his new self while Rick has tried maintaining his old self. Both of them can become more effective leaders by adapting to the current situation. Shane - by maintaining a balance with his old self and Rick by embracing a balance with his new self. I think Rick will make that journey, but Shane won't because he doesn't seem to be the type to learn from decisions - he is always right in his book - and I think he is starting to really like the person he has become with no societal mores to judge his actions.

BTW, the zombies are still the threat - force of nature or not. They are the threat. Period.

Too many, as we call them, armchair generals. As I was discussing with Pix over AIM, how many people possess the fundamental skills for survival (like starting fire from scratch), let alone be qualified and capable of establishing security and making the right decisions for a group of survivors in a hostile situation. If you remove the Lori aspect from Shane's psychosis, he is exactly what this group, or any for that matter, needs to survive in this type of environment.

In a lot of ways, this reminds me of The Last Samurai. Honor was crucial to their way of life, but in the end, yes, it made them heroes, but them, and their way of life, was essentially lost forever (killed off).

 

[Mad Old Lu]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

Finally finished the episode last night. Really great. I had read the spoilers but watching that last scene unfold was so much more powerful than I could have imagined.

I think the groups could have come to an understanding about the barn. Perhaps they could agree to not bring any more walkers in. Or maybe let the ones in the barn deteriorate by not feeding them. Face it, feeding them chickens kept them going. The barn seemed plenty secure to keep that group in, especially if they were slowly winding down.

The whole property must be pretty secure as well, considering Hershell and his crew didn't even bother boarding up the windows or securing the doors.

Or even take Hershell's suggestion and find another farm to squat in. Lori can still visit Hershell from time to time to monitor the pregnancy.

I just think the whole "we can't stay cos of the walkers in the barn" thing is a bit too black and white. At least Rick was trying to find a compromise. But I suppose Hershell needed the intervention in order for him to snap into reality.

 

[BrianK]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

Right and wrong - moral right and wrong - are far more important in this type of world than any other. It's easy to do the 'right' thing when you're sipping a latte at the Starbucks while perusing the net. It's also meaningless. In situations of extreme danger and survival, doing the right thing is what makes leaders and heroes. Doing just what you believe you must to survive and using that as your justification...well, the news is currently filled with people using that same alibi for all sorts of 'wrong' behavior.

The zombies aren't the threat - they are just a force of nature now, like a tornado or flood. If humanity got it's act together, it could survive and flourish again. But if you believe that when the going gets tough you can toss out the concept of good and evil, right and wrong, and merely do whatever you think you need to, then the remaining humans are doomed to destroy each other.

I understand that to keep any part of "civilization", you must have morals and rules. I just see that at this time it is about survival. Once the threat of the walkers is reduced, civilization can grow again. This is a transitional time where many of the civilized notions of how a person should act are far outweighed by making sure you do not become part of the "horde". The story is about how hard it is to keep your humanity in such a world. Like you stated humanity has to get it act together but we have not been able to do that ever. I would love to see how other nations would handle this situation like the Middle East where survival is hard everyday.

 

[ArmoredFoe]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

Can someone answer whats the purpose of the mid-season break. Why are they doing that instead of just letting it run thru. Any answers or reasoning behind this. Im just curious.

 

[thenammagazine]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

Finally finished the episode last night. Really great. I had read the spoilers but watching that last scene unfold was so much more powerful than I could have imagined.

I think the groups could have come to an understanding about the barn. Perhaps they could agree to not bring any more walkers in. Or maybe let the ones in the barn deteriorate by not feeding them. Face it, feeding them chickens kept them going. The barn seemed plenty secure to keep that group in, especially if they were slowly winding down.

The whole property must be pretty secure as well, considering Hershell and his crew didn't even bother boarding up the windows or securing the doors.

Or even take Hershell's suggestion and find another farm to squat in. Lori can still visit Hershell from time to time to monitor the pregnancy.

I just think the whole "we can't stay cos of the walkers in the barn" thing is a bit too black and white. At least Rick was trying to find a compromise. But I suppose Hershell needed the intervention in order for him to snap into reality.

You didn't hear Maggie say all the surrounding farms had been burned down?

Can someone answer whats the purpose of the mid-season break. Why are they doing that instead of just letting it run thru. Any answers or reasoning behind this. Im just curious.

In a word, sweeps.

 

[316what]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

Can someone answer whats the purpose of the mid-season break. Why are they doing that instead of just letting it run thru. Any answers or reasoning behind this. Im just curious.

Holiday season.

 

[hoodonit00]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

Right and wrong - moral right and wrong - are far more important in this type of world than any other. It's easy to do the 'right' thing when you're sipping a latte at the Starbucks while perusing the net. It's also meaningless. In situations of extreme danger and survival, doing the right thing is what makes leaders and heroes. Doing just what you believe you must to survive and using that as your justification...well, the news is currently filled with people using that same alibi for all sorts of 'wrong' behavior.

The zombies aren't the threat - they are just a force of nature now, like a tornado or flood. If humanity got it's act together, it could survive and flourish again. But if you believe that when the going gets tough you can toss out the concept of good and evil, right and wrong, and merely do whatever you think you need to, then the remaining humans are doomed to destroy each other.

I'm sorry but I completely disagree with what you are saying. They are dealing with an enemy that has no reasoning, no remorse, no humanity. When you come across a misguided individual like Hershel who can't see with his own eyes that the people he once loved are no longer there and aren't coming back then sometimes something has to be done about it.

It would be like a kennel owner whose kennel somehow had an outbreak of rabies. Would you still say it would be wrong for someone to go against the owners wishes and go in and destroy the rabid dogs?

Before humanity could even beging to flourish again the threat would have to be neatralized. To do that, the brutality Shane and Darryl have shown would be needed. Simple as that.

 

[BrianK]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

After speaking to men that were in Vietnam, sometimes you had to leave your humanity at the door to survive. This is what is happening to Darryl and Shane but Darryl seems to be more on fence as the show goes on while Shane is becoming harder. The parts with darryl and Sophia's mother show that he is softening some not a lot but some.

 

[thenammagazine]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

The "humanity" aspect is entirely subjective. The instinct for survival is just as human as the need for compassion.

 

[hoodonit00]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

The "humanity" aspect is entirely subjective. The instinct for survival is just as human as the need for compassion.

 

[Michael Crawford]

Re: The Walking Dead - TV Series on AMC

I'm not talking about Shane killing the zombies as his 'wrong', although how he did it was pretty stupid, since it put everyone at risk including Carl.

I'm talking about Shane taking the farm by force from Herschel, which is his point - killing the zombies was just an means to an end. When he left Lori, he left intending to take the farm. That's why he told Carl they would do whatever it took to stay, and that's why he went to the RV looking for the guns. He has no intention of stopping with clearing the barn (cm'on, do you think Shane is stupid enough to think Herschel is going to say "Oh, thanks so much for killng those zombies, please stay with us" now?), he intends on taking the farm for theirs no matter what that means, and by clearing the barn he's forced the situation. That's what I'm talking about as being the 'wrong' Shane has justified in his own mind.

Funny thing is, he's actually doomed Lori far worse by being rash and emotional. Lori needed Herschel more than she needs his farm - when it comes time to deliver, a doctor (even a vet) is going to be extremely important, and in very, very short supply.

And the instinct to survive is not 'human'. It's a basic animal instinct, unlike compassion. Being able to rise above animal instinct is what makes us human.