The Willow Polystone Statue

[sueworld]

Is it 'aggressive' or is it that some just don't like what we're trying to say. Some times people don't like It when some try and hold up a mirror to how merchandisers treat females when it comes to their products.

If folks enjoy it then fine, I'm not attempting to stop anyone buying it.

 

[risingstar]

I'm not attempting to stop anyone buying it.

That's true. However, from what I have read over the past few pages, it appears some forum members may have perceived a (likely inadvertent) judgmental tone to your posts which may been experienced as offensive.

 

[sueworld]

Sadly thats their problem I'm afaid. People who have a problem with this item have expressed their genuine concerns very well imo, and considering we've had the odd 'bra burning' remarks thrown around I think the 'oppositions' tone hasn't been all that bad.

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

I ordered a reg..I don't care for the EX

 

[Mongoleone]

Looks so incredible. Likeness is spot on imo.

What are you all smoking!?! Looks nothing like Willow, Sideshow likenesses never do. They rock at monsters but come on, "spot on" are you friggin kidding? And when was Willow a slutty schoolgirl?

If everybody keeps praising them for mediocre work, they're never gonna improve. REALIZE THIS.

Later.

 

[Chapter 2099]

How about we all agree to disagree? All I care about is that I'm fine with it and I ordered one and I am a woman and I like it!

I'll second that. Well said.

 

[Boba Ben]

What are you all smoking!?! Looks nothing like Willow, Sideshow likenesses never do. They rock at monsters but come on, "spot on" are you friggin kidding? And when was Willow a slutty schoolgirl?

If everybody keeps praising them for mediocre work, they're never gonna improve. REALIZE THIS.

Later.

Cool story bra.

 

[Something Sexy]

What are you all smoking!?! Looks nothing like Willow, Sideshow likenesses never do. They rock at monsters but come on, "spot on" are you friggin kidding? And when was Willow a slutty schoolgirl?

If everybody keeps praising them for mediocre work, they're never gonna improve. REALIZE THIS.

Later.

Sculpt likeness and clothes are two different things.

 

[Star Puffs]

However, the manner in which your message is being presented also risks being perceived as male bashing in the process.

Sideshow treats a strong female character in a blatantly objectified fashion, but the real issue according to you is that I may be perceived as "male bashing" for criticising this popular style of art.

Don't let the fact I explicitly noted that many male fans would not be pleased with this presentation of Willow either slow you down. And please ignore that SilentSurfer was babbling about 'burning bras' and 'activists' in the very first response to me. What does its say about you that you respond to Sue and me and not the guys.

However, in my experience, very little is solved by communicating your thoughts and ideas in what might be perceived as an aggressive manner.

That is just a polite, round about way of saying I am being a b___h, which is a very typical condescending response when a woman offers a firm opinion.

Again, do you take the time to lecture the guys that offer opinions in an "aggressive manner"?

However, from what I have read over the past few pages, it appears some forum members may have perceived a (likely inadvertent) judgmental tone to your posts which may been experienced as offensive.

Good lord, my tone was deliberately judgmental. I judge Sideshow's sexist interpretation of Willow as not acceptable, full stop. Would my "judgmental tone" be a problem if this were an issue of racism or am I supposed to give what I feel is pretty crass objectification of women a lot more leeway?

Your message is loud and clear. When a woman is offended, even if valid as you seem to agree, she should be meek and mild to avoid upsetting a thin-skinned subset of men who just cannot handle it.

 

[Something Sexy]

Sideshow treats a strong female character in a blatantly objectified fashion, but the real issue according to you is that I may be perceived as "male bashing" for criticising this popular style of art.

Don't let the fact I explicitly noted that many male fans would not be pleased with this presentation of Willow either slow you down. And please ignore that SilentSurfer was babbling about 'burning bras' and 'activists' in the very first response to me. What does its say about you that you respond to Sue and me and not the guys.



That is just a polite, round about way of saying I am being a b___h, which is a very typical condescending response when a woman offers a firm opinion.

Again, do you take the time to lecture the guys that offer opinions in an "aggressive manner"?



Good lord, my tone was deliberately judgmental. I judge Sideshow's sexist interpretation of Willow as not acceptable, full stop. Would my "judgmental tone" be a problem if this were an issue of racism or am I supposed to give what I feel is pretty crass objectification of women a lot more leeway?

Your message is loud and clear. When a woman is offended, even if valid as you seem to agree, she should be meek and mild to avoid upsetting a thin-skinned subset of men who just cannot handle it.

I can surely handle it but don't get all pissy when we disagree with you.

 

[Sweet Rabbit]

I can surely handle it but don't get all pissy when we disagree with you.

 

[Boba Ben]

I'm just a casual fan of Buffy and Angel, and I'm even tempted to pick this and Faith up.

'Nuff said

 

[YoNoSe]

Stan Lee: "When I created Buffy the Vampire Slayer I was looking at some bats at the bat farm when I thought about the new movie Nosferatu..."

 

[risingstar]

Your message is loud and clear. When a woman is offended, even if valid as you seem to agree, she should be meek and mild to avoid upsetting a thin-skinned subset of men who just cannot handle it.

What I am saying is that we live in a world where we're in constant negociation with how we share space with others.
When I say "we", I mean both men and women.

 

[Boba Ben]

This thread demonstrates the problem with the world. It's totally fair to speak from your own point of view, and share opinions. That's how people relate and learn from each other. We can grow as a society, even if it's a cyber-society. The problem happens when we insist that our view is THE view, and that anything different is wrong. Everybody's value system stems from our unique set of experiences in life and is influenced by the people we come into contact with. We all come from different religions, schools, countries, and even interests.

My values and what I find acceptable or offensive come from my childhood experiences, my parent's values, my religious input, and my own decisions to embrace or reject them. My views are clearly not the most popular in this particular thread, but I see no reason to not like anybody because they don't fit in my mental box.

I'm glad people are different. I just wish we could share ideas with less zeal and more calm. I don't have to convince any of you that I am right for me to believe it. And I feel no need to destroy you because I think you're wrong. And I hope you feel the exact same way.

I like you Silent Surfer.

 

[Star Puffs]

I'm glad people are different. I just wish we could share ideas with less zeal and more calm. I don't have to convince any of you that I am right for me to believe it. And I feel no need to destroy you because I think you're wrong. And I hope you feel the exact same way.

If that is how you feel then maybe you should have considered that before you mocked me in your initial response about burning bras.

The only person I had attacked in my original post was Tom, Sideshow's Art Director, who is in fairness the person directly responsible party for approving this design on Willow. And speaking of 'difference' my very concern is that Tom is promoting what I perceive as a monoculture of over-sexed representations of women, which is now affecting licences like Buffy where it is inappropriate and offensive to female fans. I explicitly noted that that art style has a place, welcome or not, in comicbook properties.

Go look at a thread on Indiana Jones or Star Wars Medicom figures if you want a real example of people utterly out to figuratively destroy one another in the world of collectibles.

The problem happens when we insist that our view is THE view, and that anything different is wrong. Everybody's value system stems from our unique set of experiences in life and is influenced by the people we come into contact with. We all come from different religions, schools, countries, and even interests.

That sounds so reasonable on the surface, but some things are just not acceptable and you need to have the courage of your convictions to say so. To use a classic example, is slavery OK because a person's religious, educational or cultural background validate it?

Without firm criticism nothing would ever change. Women did not get the right to vote be being all respectful and meek towards the misogynists who felt women were innately inferior. Racial minorities in Western societies have not won legal equality by 'appreciating the difference' between those who think they are equal human beings and those who do not.

Bottom line: I find the near constant (key word) objectification of women to be offensive and serious issue that needs to be called out without apology.

 

[YoNoSe]

Wow the disparity of opinion and POV in this thread is...actually interesting.

I don't argue with Star Puffs. The last time I did a bunch of meatheads so utterly proved her point that I ate my words. When you're wrong, you're wrong.

...which actually gives me pause here. I guess I am quick to defend Sideshow's artistic license. It is a bit self serving for me, admittedly the target audience, to dismiss these objections.

While I don't personally find the Willow statue to be overly sexualized there is definitely a case to be made that she of all characters is worst served with this kind of treatment. And I do "get" the girly posture and exaggeration of Willow's "sweater and mini" outfit (she did wear them, but with stockings and minus her belly showing - aside from the Halloween episode, which was purposefully out of character).

I also believe that the female-empowering themes of BTVS do not contradict a little sexiness. After all, women are still beautiful, so why not celebrate this while being powerful? But does that make the out-of-character sexing-up of Willow appropriate? I don't know.

I will say that this discussion has me reconsidering this statue.

 

[Something Sexy]

I like you Silent Surfer.

HE is good people!

 

[Chapter 2099]

All I know is one thing.

I must own this statue.

 

[YoNoSe]

All I know is one thing.

I must own this statue.

As much as I understand the debate, I do love a hardcore fan.

I also like 2099. Have you picked up the new Hasbro figure?