Vice Presidential Debate Tonight - Biden vs. Palin.... DING, DING, DING

[wofford29]

Yes. But they also have papers and notecards on the podium. Palin had a notecard for every question (way more than Biden) and kept marking them off as she went. It was well rehearsed speech, nothing else. She never got into any specifics unlike Sen. Biden.

I'm not sure we saw the same debate. Neither of them had anything to say of importance and they both answered about 1 question that was actually asked.

 

[Mesa]

https://www.frontiersman.com/articles/2008/09/06/breaking_news/doc48c1c8a60d6d9379155484.txt

FROM THE ARCHIVE: Palin: Library censorship inquiries 'Rhetorical'
By PAUL STUART
Published on Friday, September 5, 2008 5:18 PM AKDT

Editor's note: This story first ran in the Mat-Su Valley Frontiersman Dec. 18, 1996. It has been typeset and posted here to accommodate numerous requests for the story from media worldwide and curious individuals. Please note that not at any time were any books ever banned from the Wasilla city library.

WASILLA -- In the wake of strong reactions from the city's library director to inquiries about censorship, Wasilla Mayor Sarah Palin on Monday was taking pains to explain her questions about censoring library material were “rhetorical.”

Library Director Mary Ellen Emmons last week said Palin broached the subject with her on two occasions in October - once Palin was elected mayor Oct. 1 but before she took office on Oct. 14, and again in more detail on Monday, Oct. 28. Besides heading the Wasilla City Library, Emmons is also president of the Alaska Library Association.

The issue became public last Wednesday, when Palin brought it up during an interview about the now-defunct Liquor task Force. Palin used the library topic as an example of discussions with her department heads about understanding and following administration agendas. Palin said she asked Emmons how she would respond to censorship.

Emmons drew a clear distinction Saturday between the nature of Palin's inquiries and an established book-challenge policy in place in Wasilla, and in most public libraries.

“I'm not trying to suppress anyone's views,” Emmons said. “But I told her (Palin) clearly, I will fight anyone who tries to dictate what books can go on the library shelves.”

Palin said Monday she had no particular books or other material in mind when she posed the questions to Emmons.

Emmons said in the first conversation, before being sworn in as mayor, Palin briefly touched on the subject of censorship.

But on Monday, Oct. 28, Emmons said Palin asked her outright if she could live with censorship of library books. This was during a weak when Palin was requesting resignations from all� the city's department heads as a way of expressing loyalty.

“This is different than a normal book-selection procedure or a book-challenge policy,” Emmons stressed Saturday. “She was asking me how I would deal with her saying a book can't be in the library.”

Monday Palin said in a written statement she was only trying to get aquatinted with her staff at the time. “Many issues were discussed, both rhetorical and realistic in nature,” Palin added.

Emmons recalled that the Oct. 28 conversation she pulled no punches with her response to the mayor.

“She asked me if I would object to censorship, and I replied 'Yup',” Emmons recounted Saturday. “And I told her it would not be just me. This was a constitutional question, and the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) would get involved, too.”

Emmons said Palin asked her on Oct. 28 if she would object to censorship, even if people were circling the library in protest about a book. “I told her it would definitely be a problem the ACLU would take on then,” Emmons said

Asked who she thought might picket the library, Palin said Monday, “Had no one in mind ... again, the issue was discussed in the context of a professional question being asked in regards to library policy.

“All questions posed to Wasilla's library director were asked in the context of professionalism regarding the library policy that is in place in our city. Obviously the issue of censorship is a library question... you ask a library director that type of question,” Palin said

“Palin also said Monday censorship issues would not involve any departments other than the library.

Emmons said she has been offered help if it is ever needed on censorship issues from the state library association's Intellectual Freedom Committee and the National Freedom to Read Foundation.

Palin called Emmons into her office Monday to discuss the censorship questions again.

Palin also attended Friday's staff meeting at the library, but without mentioning censorship , Emmons said.

“I'm hoping it was just a trial balloon,” Emmons said, “because the free exchange of information is my main job, and I'll fight anyone who tries to interfere with that.”

The timing of the issue comes at a time when Emmons is trying to get the book-challenge policies of the Wasilla Library and of the Palmer City Library in line with the Mat-Su Borough policy, revised in December of last year.

Emmons described the new borough policy as “a very good one.”

It is a step-by-step blueprint of procedures for anyone wanting to challenge the selection and availability of library material, Emmons explained. “it is a good process, and almost all public libraries have one.”

The borough's policy was revised mainly to replace the borough manager as the final decision maker with a formal Reconsideration Committee Mat-Su Borough Manager Don Moore said Saturday that changes were made, with the blessings, after a dispute that was resolved about two years ago involving a challenged book at the Big Lake Library.

Emmons said the current Wasilla policy, which she described as written in more general terms than the borough's, also worked procedurally in a book-challenge case last year. Emmons said then-council-woman Palin was distressed about the issue when it came up, indicating she was aware of the city's book-challenge policy.

Emmons said in the conversations with now-Mayor Palin in October, she reminded her again that the city has a policy in place. “But it seamed clear to me that wasn't really what she was talking about anyhow,” Emmons added. “I just hope it doesn't come up again.”

Meanwhile, Emmons said she is working with borough libraries boss Bruce Urban and Palmer Library Director Janice Sanford, in the hope of getting the cities to adopt a book-challenge policy identical to the borough's.

someone please show me where in here Palin tries to censor books. I scanned the article. Seems to me she asks the librarian how the librarian would deal with someone trying to impose censorship. But I don't see anywhere where Palin asks for books to be removed or tries to enforce those actions.

Just more proof that Obama camp throws out these accusations and promises, and the herd believes them without actually trying to do some fact checking on their own. That would require a little bit of effort, and much easier to be spoon fed.

 

[DarkArtist81]

Oh jeez, if you think that's a personal attack, you apparently missed the other thread.

And you're responses are predicatable as hell. I haven't even been following this thread, but of course you would be saying Palin was well rehearsed with her note cards and Biden was better since you were defending Obama in other threads.

These political threads really don't get anything accomplished.

Palin proved herself yesterday that she isn't a moose in the headlights, and I believe it's because she's a smart woman and can think on her toes. Biden looked good too, better than Obama did last Friday.

But could I expect ANYONE from the Obama camp to actually give the woman a little bit of credit for a job well done? Especially after all the personal attacks on her character priori to the debate? of course not.

That post WAS a blatant personal attack, although a light ***... Please refrain from that guys... This thread was so nice last night.

And dude... What about Celtic and myself? Last night we gave her credit for doing a decent job. She held her own....

She still was a slogan machine... "Maverick this, Corruption on Wall Street that..." And she still had that God awful twang, but she held her own.

So there. Stop rolling your damn eyes.

 

[hoodonit00]

Yes. But they also have papers and notecards on the podium. Palin had a notecard for every question (way more than Biden) and kept marking them off as she went. It was well rehearsed speech, nothing else. She never got into any specifics unlike Sen. Biden.

Oh of course.Well Biden was picking up live feed from his staff through a short wave radio mounted inside his teeth to help him answer his questions.

 

[Bannister]

someone please show me where in here Palin tries to censor books. I scanned the article. Seems to me she asks the librarian how the librarian would deal with someone trying to impose censorship. But I don't see anywhere where Palin asks for books to be removed or tries to enforce those actions.

Just more proof that Obama camp throws out these accusations and promises, and the herd believes them without actually trying to do some fact checking on their own. That would require a little bit of effort, and much easier to be spoon fed.

According to this article she did fire the librarian though:https://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/03/us/politics/03wasilla.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

The librarian, Mary Ellen Emmons, pledged to “resist all efforts at censorship,” Ms. Kilkenny recalled. Ms. Palin fired Ms. Emmons shortly after taking office but changed course after residents made a strong show of support. Ms. Emmons, who left her job and Wasilla a couple of years later, declined to comment for this article.

 

[DarkArtist81]

someone please show me where in here Palin tries to censor books. I scanned the article. Seems to me she asks the librarian how the librarian would deal with someone trying to impose censorship. But I don't see anywhere where Palin asks for books to be removed or tries to enforce those actions.

Just more proof that Obama camp throws out these accusations and promises, and the herd believes them without actually trying to do some fact checking on their own. That would require a little bit of effort, and much easier to be spoon fed.

I've read testimony from the librarian and from the woman who defended her. Palin likes to say her question was rhetorical, but even if it was... asking if a book can be taken out of the library... well, that's censorship.. and it's wrong.

Here is from an article in TIME magazine...
"Stein says that as mayor, Palin continued to inject religious beliefs into her policy at times. "She asked the library how she could go about banning books," he says, because some voters thought they had inappropriate language in them. "The librarian was aghast." That woman, Mary Ellen Baker, couldn't be reached for comment, but news reports from the time show that Palin had threatened to fire Baker for not giving "full support" to the mayor. "

And here is a link from ABC news...

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[barbelith]

someone please show me where in here Palin tries to censor books

Oh please. A person with no interest in banning books is never going to ask procedural details. It would just never come up. This isn't the same thing as banning books but it does show us that Palin considers it an actionable option.

 

[barbelith]

and she did her speech at the convention with a messed up prompter so she doesn't depend on them as heavily as others do

Actually that has been shown to be untrue (the broken teleprompter).

But could I expect ANYONE from the Obama camp to actually give the woman a little bit of credit for a job well done?

I think you'll find many of us have noted she didn't implode.

 

[DarkArtist81]

Here is another thing about Sarah Palin I absolutely despise... Her policy on the killing of Alaskan Wolves. It's disgusting and wrong... I know they can be a nuisance for livestock and such, but this kind of "war" against them is uncalled for an unethical.

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[Bannister]

Here is another thing about Sarah Palin I absolutely despise... Her policy on the killing of Alaskan Wolves. It's disgusting and wrong... I know they can be a nuisance for livestock and such, but this kind of "war" against them is uncalled for an unethical.

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I don't know man, if she were around sooner, that whole thing with MacReady in the arctic could have been prevented.

 

[woodsy]

Here is another thing about Sarah Palin I absolutely despise... Her policy on the killing of Alaskan Wolves. It's disgusting and wrong... I know they can be a nuisance for livestock and such, but this kind of "war" against them is uncalled for an unethical.

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Obama is for partial birth abortion and he's not unethical, but Palin is because she doesn't have a problem with killing wolves.....are there actually any whacked out liberals out there who actually value human life over that of an animal?

 

[hoodonit00]

Here is another thing about Sarah Palin I absolutely despise... Her policy on the killing of Alaskan Wolves. It's disgusting and wrong... I know they can be a nuisance for livestock and such, but this kind of "war" against them is uncalled for an unethical.

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Sorry, but this is one of the thinkgs about libs I don't get. You yourself state that they are a nuisance so their is a reason to kill them, but you think it is unethical. But you don't have a problem with a woman aborting a baby which I think can legally be done up to the 20th. week.

 

[hoodonit00]

Obama is for partial birth abortion and he's not unethical, but Palin is because she doesn't have a problem with killing wolves.....are there actually any whacked out liberals out there who actually value human life over that of an animal?

Damn, you beat me to it. Guess great minds do think alike.

 

[DarkArtist81]

Listen, I don't APPROVE of abortion... but I think that people should have the choice to do so. I'd never do it myself, nor tell someone that they should. It's a horrible thing to have to do, I just don't think it should be illegal and the choice taken away just because of the fact.

I don't like to hand out death in any way. And hey, if a Wolf is on your land attacking your animals...it is your right to defend your property and kill it.

But to ok the practice of hunting via plane or helicopter, which has been illegal for years, killing a large number of top predators (which are very important to the local ecosystem) just so you will have more moose to kill yourself? Well, that's wrong on so many levels. Not only ethically, but environmentally.

Removal of the top predator causes a landslide of issues in an ecosystem, it can lead to the loss of other life and a unbalance of diversity that is hard to bounce back from.

 

[ProgMatinee]

Thats cool. I'll trade you a ban on wolf killing for a ban on fetus killing.

 

[DarkArtist81]

Thats cool. I'll trade you a ban on wolf killing for a ban on fetus killing.

I'd be down for that trade... I don't want to kill babies.

I think that abortion is a choice, up until a certain point... but that's just me. And again, I would never condone that choice for anyone.

 

[hoodonit00]

From what I googled there were 1.37 million abortions performed in the US in 2007. That's ok, as long as the wolves are ok.
https://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_abortions_have_there_been_in_2007

 

[Bannister]

Thats cool. I'll trade you a ban on wolf killing for a ban on fetus killing.

I now have a craving for some steak and eggs.

 

[DarkArtist81]

From what I googled there were 1.37 million abortions performed in the US in 2007. That's ok, as long as the wolves are ok.
https://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_abortions_have_there_been_in_2007

This is an ignorant answer to a legitimate question....

It's not right to beat people over the head with the bible or anyone's own belief structure, telling them that it's wrong to get an abortion. It's a terrible choice, but it's their choice to make. We as Americans have the freedom to make that horrible choice, despite any belief structure saying it's wrong.

To compare that to slaughtering an entire population of wolves is idiotic. To make them equal, that would mean that we'd have to take a state full of people and MAKE them have abortions via some horrific manner... like in a helicopter, with the remains raining down on a church.

 

[DarthNeil]

We're moving into precarious territory guys (and gals)-- keep the discussions/debates flowing in a civil (if somewhat adversarial tone) way please.