Vice Presidential Debate Tonight - Biden vs. Palin.... DING, DING, DING

[DarkArtist81]

I just find it sad when a returning Iraq War veteran cannot even keep a stable job. Really pisses me off.

 

[barbelith]

Honestly, I believe that if the middle class makes more... we will put more into the pockets of the taxed higher class, spreading the wealth around and having a better minimum wage helps that.

Don't forget that many if not most of the upper class invests in stocks and other instruments rather than starting businesses and hiring workers. Yet people still swallow the myth.

 

[ProgMatinee]

The problem is, that even with high experience... people still run the chance of ending up on minimum wage. A couple of months ago, I was looking everywhere for a job.. And I am a veteran with a high school diploma, who is also attending college and has worked many diverse jobs..

Yet, I couldn't get anything above minimum wage. There were no jobs to be had.

You said yourself earlier that you desired a move, frankly with your skills in art you're doing yourself a huge disservice by sticking in a location that doesn't have jobs and yet something is holding you back. You need to get out of there.

 

[DarkArtist81]

You said yourself earlier that you desired a move, frankly with your skills in art you're doing yourself a huge disservice by sticking in a location that doesn't have jobs and yet something is holding you back. You need to get out of there.

I agree.... If only Sideshow would hire me.

The main problem is really money and my Wife. I have to get her used to the idea of moving, and keep putting myself out there.

At least Sideshow is keeping me in mind, if they ever have a spot open...

 

[barbelith]

Bull^^^^. It's in a down turn for many reasons, and partly because the government (both Democrats and Republicans) keep politicizing the economy and ^^^^ing with it, which they have for years.

I know you need to believe that, but it's simply not true. In particular the Wall Street financial crisis is almost entirely down to unregulated greed. Left to its own devices our economy gave us a housing meltdown and credit crunch.

 

[IrishJedi]

Left to its own devices our economy gave us a housing meltdown and credit crunch.

Yeah, that had absolutely NOTHING to do with the Clinton Admin (and an agreeable congress) pushing for less under-writing for home loans.

 

[RoboDad]

At least Sideshow is keeping me in mind, if they ever have a spot open...

I hope they do!

 

[wofford29]

It doesn't inherently mean any of these things, of course. And it means nothing at all for any business that pays higher than minimum wage in the first place.

I'm not sure your point makes sense in light of your previous arguement. We're not talking about business that pay higher than minimum wage. We're talking specifically about minimum wage, and of course nothing is inherent, althougth statistics will always correlate to my points.

How many apartments can you rent on minimum wage?

How many people rent apartments by themselves? How many people renting apartments do it on one income? How many people living at home are of age to rent an apartment? How many people on minimum wage rent apartments? How many this ? How many that? You're talking about a lifestyle choice now.

 

[ProgMatinee]

Profit is profit.

What does that mean? You mean you'll risk your savings for an outlook 2% profit? LOL.

I'm sure it sounds very convincing when Rush says it.

The only Rush I listen to is the one that recorded 2112 and Signals!

The economy is currently in crisis mode thanks to being left to its own devices.

yeah because Fannie and Freddie weren't Federal programs or anything....lol.

 

[DarkArtist81]

I hope they do!

Thanks man.... I hope they do too. At least I have Painter friends there now... that always helps. I already told them that I would move in a heartbeat and they'd have a man ready to paint immediately. I also will be buying an airbrush soon to try and get the hang of it, to master that "Sideshow" style.

 

[ProgMatinee]

Don't forget that many if not most of the upper class invests in stocks and other instruments rather than starting businesses and hiring workers. Yet people still swallow the myth.

Stocks=businesses dude...

 

[barbelith]

Yeah, that had absolutely NOTHING to do with the Clinton Admin (and an agreeable congress) pushing for less under-writing for home loans.

I'm sorry, I thought you said the economy should be left alone as a self-sustaining system. Wall Street pushed the ARMs and subprimes and HELOCs and created the MBS and other derivatives that created this mess.

I'm not sure your point makes sense in light of your previous arguement. We're not talking about business that pay higher than minimum wage. We're talking specifically about minimum wage, and of course nothing is inherent, althougth statistics will always correlate to my points.

Obviously they don't as the general economic trend is upward over time. You're also claiming a macro effect from micro action; pointing to the numerous unaffected companies belies the claim.

What does that mean? You mean you'll risk your savings for an outlook 2% profit?

Now you're shifted the goal posts. This isn't how businesses think.

yeah because Fannie and Freddie weren't Federal programs or anything.

They weren't until last month. Thanks for playing!

 

[barbelith]

Stocks=businesses dude.

Sorry dude. Buying a stock at any point after the initial float is like buying a used CD. The artist doesn't make a dime.

 

[wofford29]

I'm sorry, I thought you said the economy should be left alone as a self-sustaining system. Wall Street pushed the ARMs and subprimes and HELOCs and created the MBS and other derivatives that created this mess.

Consumer responsibiltiy had nothing to do with it of course.

Obviously they don't as the general economic trend is upward over time. You're also claiming a macro effect from micro action; pointing to the numerous unaffected companies belies the claim.

You can look them up. They're out there. I also think when looking for a fix it's naive to seperate Macro and Microstrutcures.

 

[barbelith]

Consumer responsibiltiy had nothing to do with it of course.

I think consumer irresponsibility had a lot to do with it. That doesn't change the fact that the "self-sustaining economy" myth is an abject lie. The profit motive means everything that happened would still have happened. These things were created by Wall Street because money talks. There's no incentive for long-term thinking because you'll be out of there with your golden parachute anyway.

You can look them up.

Look up what?

 

[wofford29]

Look up what?

The statistics.

 

[DarthNeil]

(sigh)... Get back from practise and-----

Well... Try (operative word) to keep it civilized guys (and gals) and stay away from name-calling. It'd be nice if not every topical thread didn't have to get locked for the immaturity of a simple minority while the majority dicuss things intellectually.

 

[ProgMatinee]

Barb, you're so misinformed its not even funny.

From the Fannie Mae FAQ: "Fannie Mae has a unique heritage as a leading financial institution. First established in 1938 as a government agency, Fannie Mae in 1968 became a private, shareholder-owned company with a charter from Congress to support the housing finance system. "

They still get their direction from Congress.

And regarding stocks, the ownership of stocks is an ownership in a company. The exchange of stocks does not create new income, but the owners of the stocks are the rudder that steers the boat in the direction to MAKE money and either distribute dividends or reinvest profits which creates jobs...

 

[barbelith]

The statistics.

Feel free to provide some.

Barb, you're so misinformed its not even funny.

From the Fannie Mae FAQ: "Fannie Mae has a unique heritage as a leading financial institution. First established in 1938 as a government agency, Fannie Mae in 1968 became a private, shareholder-owned company with a charter from Congress to support the housing finance system. "

I have to thank you for calling me misinformed while quoting something that proves me right and you dead wrong. Thanks for the belly laugh!

And regarding stocks, the ownership of stocks is an ownership in a company. The exchange of stocks does not create new income, but the owners of the stocks are the rudder that steers the boat in the direction to MAKE money and either distribute dividends or reinvest profits which creates jobs...

You can't seriously believe that you have any leverage in any company in your portfolio. Or maybe you're secretly Carl Icahn?

 

[ProgMatinee]

Barb, you're so cute. While Fannie Mae was "privatized" its actually still steered by Congress through OFHEO and HUD which are Federal Agencies. Thank you for the laugh sweety.

Further quoted from https://www.fanniemae.com/faq/cs_faq3.jhtml?p=FAQ:

Fannie Mae has two principal regulators.

The Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight (OFHEO) was established as an independent entity within the Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) by the Federal Housing Enterprises Financial Safety and Soundness Act of 1992 to ensure the capital adequacy and financial safety and soundness of two government-sponsored enterprises (GSEs). OFHEO's oversight responsibilities include:

Conducting broad based examinations of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac; developing a risk-based capital standard, using a "stress test" that simulates stressful interest rate and credit risk scenarios; making quarterly findings of capital adequacy based on minimum capital standards and a risk-based standard; and prohibiting excessive executive compensation.


Issuing regulations concerning capital and enforcement standards; and taking necessary enforcement actions.
HUD is our "mission regulator." HUD generally has the responsibility to insure that the company fulfills its mission as set forth in our charter. HUD also sets the affordable housing goals, monitors our compliance with those goals, and approves any new programs we develop.
In addition, as the result of our March 31, 2003, registration of its common stock with the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC), Fannie Mae is permanently required to file periodic financial disclosures with the SEC under the Securities Exchange Act of 1934. All periodic filings by Fannie Mae are subject to SEC review in the same manner that the SEC reviews other registered companies' filings.

Last Revised: July 07, 2006