Hot Toys - DX13 - T2: T-800 (Battle-Damaged Version) 1/6-scale Collectible Figure

[a-dev]

They're both such great films, I wish it wasn't necessary to attack one to defend the other

 

[DiFabio]

Yup, but ya gotta do it.

It wasn't until a few years ago (on this very board) that I ever saw T1 and T2 pitted against each other. I just never understood it and I never will. People make it sound like T2 is pussified or something when that's just not the case. I mean, we actually see disturbing images of nuclear fire blowing LA and it's populace into ashes. What does T1 have against that? How is it not "softer" or sissified when it has a love story and dialogue like "have you ever been with a girl before" and "I loved you since I saw a picture of you" and hanging cone **** in an awkward 80s sex scene to a baaaaad track?

I love the original, but anytime I see unnecessary T2 hate, watch out. Sorry Terminator One, I love you dearly but nobody insults Uncle Bob and Mercury Copman in favor of you.

 

[Khev]

Yeah there are plenty of times in both movies where the respective terminator should of terminated the person they were supposed to, but I guess you got to disengage a part o your brain when you watch movies like T1, T2,.

While I disagree that there were "plenty of times" in T1 the fact is that the opportunities T1 Arnold had to kill Sarah were milliseconds long and totally internally consistent. He put the red dot on old Sarah's forehead for about as long as he did Sarah in Tech Noir.

He wasn't sprinting after them one minute and deliberately walking casually the next.

 

[Khev]

They're both such great films, I wish it wasn't necessary to attack one to defend the other

T2 is good it just suffers in comparison, that's all. As opposed to ALIEN/ALIENS, SW/ESB, Godfather I/II and other pairs where one doesn't bring down the other.

 

[DiFabio]

How does T1 bring down T2? How does T2 bring down T1?

 

[David]

Wow, you guys are passionate. The T-800 is a machine. It does what it's programmed to do. If it's set in defense mode, the parameters are sure to be different. On another note, I don't know if anyone here's seen this photo but man is it cool!

It's not a picture, it's a 3D model. That's even more impressive.

 

[Khev]

How does T1 bring down T2? How does T2 bring down T1?

T1 doesn't bring down T2 of course. T2 sanitized the mystique of the Arnold terminator and undid T1's perfect time loop in favor of a messier but more "crowd pleasing" paradox.

 

[stshammgod]

It's not a picture, it's a 3D model. That's even more impressive.

I know that, I should've just said "image."

 

[a-dev]

T2 sanitized the mystique of the Arnold terminator and undid T1's perfect time loop in favor of a messier but more "crowd pleasing" paradox.

I'm not going to go into the time paradox stuff, as Sarah says, a person could go crazy thinking about these things.

As for the sanitisation of the T-800. I feel that as long as it was done in a believable enough way (which it was) there's no problem really. I know I said this before and I think you might have had something to say back to it but I've forgotten, but - happenstance. He just didn't happen to kill anyone in the bar in the same way that the T1 T-800 didn't happen to kill at least one of the punks who he merely shoved, or the guy he kicked out of the phone box or anyone else he encountered and didn't kill. Once UncleBob met up with John he was about to kill someone only for John to realise how far he was willing to go and he intervened (whether he should have had the strength to push T-800s arm is another matter) And thereafter he is forbidden from killing anyone. What plays out from that point on is a perfectly acceptable portrayal of a T-800 that is on protection duty to a young boy. The one liners etc all have a believable context. And in the end the T-800 remains emotionless. ''I know now why you cry, but its something I can never do''. His learning experience can only take him so far, he's still a machine.

 

[DiFabio]

T1 doesn't bring down T2 of course. T2 sanitized the mystique of the Arnold terminator and undid T1's perfect time loop in favor of a messier but more "crowd pleasing" paradox.

But T1 doesn't have a perfect time loop.

Before the story we're shown, Kyle Reese isn't John Connor's father. How could he be? How would that even be possible. No. There would be an original timeline. A timeline where maybe Sarah hooks up with some guy at Tech Noir and has a one night stand after being scorned by her boy friend over the phone (she was out getting pizza by herself). A timeline where John Connor's father isn't a guy that hasn't been born yet.

"The future is not set". The future that Sarah is driving off to at the end of T1 is limitless. It isn't a perfect time loop, it can't be. There are actual deleted scenes for T1 of a proactive Sarah. A Sarah that tries to convince Reese that Judgment Day doesn't have to happen. A Sarah that does her own "phone book hunt" for Skynet. That's all there. It's her suggestion to raid and bomb that early Cyberdyne that Reese doesn't want a part of. It's her idea to take out Skynet retroactively. Hell, the original end for the first film before it was cut was to pan up from Sarah being taken away in the ambulance and see that the climax occurred at Cyberdyne Systems

What does T2 do? It presents us with that idea. We find that Sarah is at Pescadero hospital. Why? She tried blowing up all these computer companies, just like she wanted to do in T1. Cyberdyne? They're at an advanced state now that they have not only the chip, but the endoskeleton arm. It all adds up to me, everything is happening as it should.

There is no "perfect" time loop. Things change. Kyle Reese wasn't always John's father. The Terminator arm and chip wasn't always the creation/inspiration for Skynet. Everything was much more primitive. The catalyst of of sending back an infiltrator to take out John before he was born and Connor reacting by sending back a volunteering soldier advance everything. Now, Sarah shacks up with Reese, making him the father. Now, Skynet advances itself with that chip and arm being found and you have your Uncle Bob's and your T-1000s. Those things didn't always happen just like the mall at Back to The Future wasn't always known as "Twin Pine Mall" when Marty ran over that tree in 1955.


This Sarah wasn't just going to lay low and wait for that storm to come. That's shown in The Terminator. Those ideas in T2 are all there. T2 is just an extension of the first film's timeline just like the first film is an alternate extension of what goes down before the stuff we see as the audience.

 

[cokebabies]

In my childhood I watched every episode.

I watch way too much of that show now. They air like eight hours a night on ABC Family.

 

[Khev]

But T1 doesn't have a perfect time loop.

Before the story we're shown, Kyle Reese isn't John Connor's father. How could he be? How would that even be possible. No. There would be an original timeline. A timeline where maybe Sarah hooks up with some guy at Tech Noir and has a one night stand after being scorned by her boy friend over the phone (she was out getting pizza by herself). A timeline where John Connor's father isn't a guy that hasn't been born yet.

T1 doesn't start as a perfect loop but it ends that way. Just the opposite with T2. Deleted scenes are irrelevant as they weren't part of the actual movie. Directors/writers tinker with alternate ideas from initial story meetings right up until final cut. The finished movie is the story. The end.

 

[DiFabio]

So what happens next? Sarah pops John out, they go into hiding and the whole film just happens again? The deleted scenes are valid and were cut for time. Or do you really think that Reese and Sarah were just making bombs for the hell of it and JUST SO HAPPEN to arrive at a random computer facility after that chase?

That can't be, because a new timeline has been created. The world Reese enters wasn't always "Reese makes Connor, T-800 makes Skynet". Skynet will be more advanced now, this isn't the first time in history that it has the idea to send an infiltration unit back now, it'll be the second. Now Connor will be sending Reese back having the knowledge that the guy is his dad (Sarah's recording tapes). The message he sends Reese with is going to change (and does change). Reese and Connor might not even meet at the camps since he has this knowledge, which is a huge change. Not only that, but now Skynet and it's technology is more advanced with it's history because of that damn arm and chip. It progresses everything forward, even time travel, which T2 clearly shows.

So it can't be a perfect loop. The next future and present is going to be different. This future's Connor and Skynet are going to have knowledge of where they come from that the first one didn't. They're both going to know that they inadvertently create each other. That changes up everything. Now it isn't, "Skynet had no records of Sarah before the war so the Terminator is being systematic by taking out every Sarah Connor". No, now Skynet KNOWS. There's records now. Sarah has been in custody, she's been attacked, it knows all about John.


So T2 is just as valid. The future we see in the beginning is the result of what occurred in the events of the first Terminator. Those tapes Sarah has? John has em. The desert she's driving off to? We see it. T2 closes the loop, which would logically happen. Because of the events we see in T1, T2 occurs. Skynet knows there's a possibility it will fail a second time, so like any computer it doubles it's odds. So this time it sends a second Terminator to a different date for good measure. Rinse and repeat.

It's actually a moot point for both films (T1 and T2) because their don't even seem to be any consequences when John or Skynet send someone back. Nothing disappears or fades away Back to the Future style, **** just changes. It's not really important for John or Skynet to worry about "one possible future" because it's not theirs. Every time Skynet sends back a Terminator, be it the first or second, it's always sent first. Every John Connor is told to be reacting to that. So since this is time travel, once Skynet sends something back to a certain date. It's done, the Resistance is too late. The Terminator catches up with Sarah and kills her in every timeline until the minute where John sends back Kyle. But so what? It doesn't affect him? He doesn't disappear. So it doesn't matter.


There is no perfect loop. They're just both great stories about humanity and machines. T2 is the perfect sequel to T1, end of story. The only thing that would make the two better is seeing the future that these two stories derive from. Something more than Reese running around fields being shot at by HKs or John Connor looking through binoculars.

 

[Khev]

So what happens next? Sarah pops John out, they go into hiding and the whole film just happens again?

Yup.

The deleted scenes are valid

Nope.

Or do you really think that Reese and Sarah were just making bombs for the hell of it and JUST SO HAPPEN to arrive at a random computer facility after that chase?

Yup. Because that's actually what happened in the movie. A cool looking location for a final showdown. Just like the steel mill at the end of T2. Nothing more.

 

[cplhicks]

Gentlemen there is only one way to settle this.

First person to terminate the other in real life will have his movie reign as the best.

 

[dw316]

Looks like he's finally coming to us next month! Still waiting for my EX to convert...

https://onesixthrepublic.blogspot.com/2013/07/hot-toys-schedule-according-to-hot-toys.html

 

[a-dev]

Gentlemen there is only one way to settle this.

I was going to make a different movie reference

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlVQodEjVus[/ame]

 

[The Skull]

Looks like he's finally coming to us next month! Still waiting for my EX to convert...

https://onesixthrepublic.blogspot.com/2013/07/hot-toys-schedule-according-to-hot-toys.html

I better put some money aside, I'm in for 2 dx13's and the amazing spiderman too That's close to a grand with shipping an all

 

[a-dev]

Looks like he's finally coming to us next month! Still waiting for my EX to convert...

https://onesixthrepublic.blogspot.com/2013/07/hot-toys-schedule-according-to-hot-toys.html

Not necessarily. That article is dated July 30. They could have pushed it back again since then

 

[The Skull]

Not necessarily. That article is dated July 30. They could have pushed it back again since then

Well then I should have some breathing room then, I would like one of them to show up though, leaning towards the dx13 cause I need some more Arnold on my shelfs