HOT TOYS : MMS DX 12 - The Dark Knight Rises - BATMAN / BRUCE WAYNE Full Specs & Pics

[the angry orc]

Do you mean toyish or cheap? Because I look at it as a expensive action figure "toy" anyway. That kojun piece is an expensive piece of art and definitely not a toy or action figure. It looks to be hyper detailed and, as you said, very realistic. But it is akso not a mass market release which surely has sonething to do with it. I think your john connor and enterbay examples are better comparisons. Throw in the tech noir T-800 also because that sculpt is gorgeous.

As far as pers I could care less. I think it is a gimmick personally but I wouldn't boycott a figure I wanted just because it has pers. I have two that have the feature...bruce and bats. I only think it ever looks wonky in pics that are blown up shots. Sitting on my shelf it looks fine.

 

[Jokes & Bats]

Re: HOT TOYS : MMS DX 12 - The Dark Knight Rises - BATMAN / BRUCE WAYNE Full Specs &

Keaton Batman has PERS and I think his eyes are pretty good.

 

[anti-hero]

Re: HOT TOYS : MMS DX 12 - The Dark Knight Rises - BATMAN / BRUCE WAYNE Full Specs &

I thought the pers idea was stupid until I had DX-02 in hand. It can make dynamic poses look so much better without the eyes staring in the wrong direction.

I also love the glass look of them, since it adds a sheen that I think tends to be more realistic. But that's just me.

 

[Pixelpiper]

Re: HOT TOYS : MMS DX 12 - The Dark Knight Rises - BATMAN / BRUCE WAYNE Full Specs &

Sorry I disagree, the eyes look so dam fake with that same Sun pattern on the iris.

You're complaining about the eye paint, not PERS here. So is it the paint-up you don't like? The way the eyes fit the socket? The way the sockets are sculpted?

I don't care either way if a figure has or does not have PERS. It's just a tool, so long as the finished product meets overall quality levels.

most of the people in this thread are using mod heads with Robbies face plate instead of PERS DX12 heads?

They're not as far as I know. If you've done a count of all the posters in the thread and broken them out on a spreadsheet then please feel free to correct me. Then there are all the lurkers who aren't actively posting in the thread, and those who have posted but haven't said anything about what they have on their own figure. That's a lot of people.

Ok name one PERS figure that looks as realistic as a non PERS one.

In my previous post I already mentioned that I felt all of Hot Toys figures shared a similar level of realism, so that includes all PERS editions. Realism being defined as how similar to a real miniaturized person the figure appears. Which again, is not to be confused with accuracy or likeness to the real-world subject being portrayed.

Most people I've seen make mods to their DX12 do so for movie or actor accuracy, not because the head/figure looks "like a toy."

 

[Darkavatar]

Re: HOT TOYS : MMS DX 12 - The Dark Knight Rises - BATMAN / BRUCE WAYNE Full Specs &

Do you mean toyish or cheap? Because I look at it as a expensive action figure "toy" anyway. That kojun piece is an expensive piece of art and definitely not a toy or action figure. It looks to be hyper detailed and, as you said, very realistic. But it is akso not a mass market release which surely has sonething to do with it. I think your john connor and enterbay examples are better comparisons. Throw in the tech noir T-800 also because that sculpt is gorgeous.

As far as pers I could care less. I think it is a gimmick personally but I wouldn't boycott a figure I wanted just because it has pers. I have two that have the feature...bruce and bats. I only think it ever looks wonky in pics that are blown up shots. Sitting on my shelf it looks fine.

I mean toyish, I to have have PERS figures 89 Batman and 89 Joker so I wouldn't boycott the figure just because it has PERS but so far all PERS figures have looked like **** IMO. The PERS on the Keaton Batman is harder to see as they are deep set in the cowl. The Kojun piece was just to show clipperking the difference between realism and likeness. IMO Hot Toys Jack Sparrow looks very plastic like a toy but better likeness than the Kojun piece as the face looks too long IMO.

 

[the angry orc]

Edit...I have bespin luke also. Don't have sparrow or 89 bats but no I don't think luke, bruce or dk bats looks like !@#$ because if pers. But obviously imo.

 

[Darkavatar]

Re: HOT TOYS : MMS DX 12 - The Dark Knight Rises - BATMAN / BRUCE WAYNE Full Specs &

You're complaining about the eye paint, not PERS here. So is it the paint-up you don't like? The way the eyes fit the socket? The way the sockets are sculpted?

I don't care either way if a figure has or does not have PERS.

I hate everything about the PERS.

It's just a tool, so long as the finished product meets overall quality levels.

That is the problem PERS ruins things, which is why Enterbay abandoned moveable eyes.

They're not as far as I know. If you've done a count of all the posters in the thread and broken them out on a spreadsheet then please feel free to correct me. Then there are all the lurkers who aren't actively posting in the thread, and those who have posted but haven't said anything about what they have on their own figure. That's a lot of people.

I might have over exaggerated but going by the fact that MRM recast have sold out indicates plenty of people bought them.

In my previous post I already mentioned that I felt all of Hot Toys figures shared a similar level of realism, so that includes all PERS editions. Realism being defined as how similar to a real miniaturized person the figure appears. Which again, is not to be confused with accuracy or likeness to the real-world subject being portrayed.

You might of mentioned it but you provided no examples.

Most people I've seen make mods to their DX12 do so for movie or actor accuracy, not because the head/figure looks "like a toy."

The PERS system makes the eyes look big, which is the reason for the inaccuracy in the first place. I don't think most people who have the DX12 want to prevent moveable eyes as such, but PERS is the reason for the inaccuracy and so they would rather have something that is accurate than something extra to play with that sacrifices realism.

Anyway I think I have made my point. I do not wish to discuss this anymore. Lets just agree to disagree.

 

[Darkavatar]

Re: HOT TOYS : MMS DX 12 - The Dark Knight Rises - BATMAN / BRUCE WAYNE Full Specs &

Edit...I have bespin luke also. Don't have sparrow or 89 bats but no I don't think luke, bruce or dk bats looks like !@#$ because if pers. But obviously imo.

It is ok you are entitled to your opinion but IMO they lack realism because of PERS. However, I am not trying to persuade you to think my way. I do not understand how everyone jumped on my back when I was just trying to show the difference between likeness and realism to clipper king. Likeness doesn't mean realism. Another example I think Rain mans Vincent from pulp fiction looks very real but do I think it looks anything like Travolta? No!

 

[the angry orc]

I didn't think I jumped on your back and I didn't think you were trying to persuade me. I thought we were just talking about action figures.

 

[Pixelpiper]

Re: HOT TOYS : MMS DX 12 - The Dark Knight Rises - BATMAN / BRUCE WAYNE Full Specs &

The eyes look "big" on DX12 because the eyelids/sockets are rather large (compared to modified). They're not squinting, which is the mod some people make, in addition to black paint app. I like both modified and stock eyes myself.

You might of mentioned it but you provided no examples.

I did use the word "ALL" - by which I mean each and every PERS product Hot Toys has released. Since "all" is inclusive, I'm not sure why you'd want me to list them out.

We were always on the same page as to likeness (accuracy) and realism, so while someone else may have misunderstood, I don't think everyone (anyone) is really jumping at you on any of these points. I have no doubts that you consider some sculpts to look more toyish than others, but I don't feel this can really be attributed to PERS, especially since the examples you've provided are all based on paint application and facial sculpting. There are plenty of toy-like head sculpts and complete figures in this hobby, but by all accounts, Hot Toys are at the top of the mass-produced game today and have been for quite a while now.

 

[Darkavatar]

Re: HOT TOYS : MMS DX 12 - The Dark Knight Rises - BATMAN / BRUCE WAYNE Full Specs &

I didn't think I jumped on your back and I didn't think you were trying to persuade me. I thought we were just talking about action figures.

No not you as such but what I did was open a can of worms and everyone started to comment on why I am wrong about PERS.

 

[Darkavatar]

Re: HOT TOYS : MMS DX 12 - The Dark Knight Rises - BATMAN / BRUCE WAYNE Full Specs &

The eyes look "big" on DX12 because the eyelids/sockets are rather large (compared to modified). They're not squinting, which is the mod some people make, in addition to black paint app.

Yeah there large to accommodate the large PERS eyes, I do not understand why you can not see this.

I did use the word "ALL" - by which I mean each and every PERS product Hot Toys has released. Since "all" is inclusive, I'm not sure why you'd want me to list them out.

I have no doubts that you consider some sculpts to look more toyish than others, but I don't feel this can really be attributed to PERS, especially since the examples you've provided are all based on paint application and facial sculpting.

Going by what is said on other threads and you tube videos many people seem to think the same way as me. Anyway like I said before I do not wish to discuss this anymore believe what you want to believe.

 

[Pixelpiper]

Re: HOT TOYS : MMS DX 12 - The Dark Knight Rises - BATMAN / BRUCE WAYNE Full Specs &

Yeah there large to accommodate the large PERS eyes, I do not understand why you can not see this.

No, they're not - they don't need to be. And that's the whole point you're failing to see. The eye lids are open wide as part of the artistic design, not because of PERS. As has been demonstrated here in modifications, you can add more eyelid material to make the eyes squint while maintaining the PERS. All of the PERS requirements are internal to the head sculpt. What you see on the outside is only a result of the artistic endeavor, not the technical requirement of the PERS system.

Open one up and look closely at how it works. I can appreciate your desire for non-toy-looking figures, I just think putting the blame on PERS is a mistake. If there's anything that makes these figures look like toys, I'd say it's toy-looking visible joints, like some wrists, elbows and necks.

 

[tommyh84]

Re: HOT TOYS : MMS DX 12 - The Dark Knight Rises - BATMAN / BRUCE WAYNE Full Specs &

I do not understand how everyone jumped on my back when I was just trying to show the difference between likeness and realism to clipper king.

You weren't trying to explain anything, in your very first comment you ended it by saracastically laughing at him because his opinions differs to yours, you then tried to make out your opinion was more for want of a better word 'worthy' because its one shared by people on this forum like members of this forum are the authority on everything Batman/Hot Toys

If you're going to display arrogance when talking to people don't expect for no one to come back at you for it

 

[Jokes & Bats]

Re: HOT TOYS : MMS DX 12 - The Dark Knight Rises - BATMAN / BRUCE WAYNE Full Specs &

Can't we all just get along Oh no wait - this is a Batman thread.

 

[TheFiend]

Re: HOT TOYS : MMS DX 12 - The Dark Knight Rises - BATMAN / BRUCE WAYNE Full Specs &

Darkavatar going on about PERS again I see.

 

[anti-hero]

Re: HOT TOYS : MMS DX 12 - The Dark Knight Rises - BATMAN / BRUCE WAYNE Full Specs &

I'm thinking of buying this. Is it a good figure?

 

[BrooklynWolf X]

Re: HOT TOYS : MMS DX 12 - The Dark Knight Rises - BATMAN / BRUCE WAYNE Full Specs &

Sorry I disagree, the eyes look so dam fake with that same Sun pattern on the iris. Right now PERS makes the sculpt more toyish IMO.




That might be true but I have yet to see it.





I can agree with all that but why do you think most of the people in this thread are using mod heads with Robbies face plate instead of PERS DX12 heads? They want realism not another tool to play with that looks like a cartoon character!



Ok name one PERS figure that looks as realistic as a non PERS one.

I just wanna throw in my two cents. You claim there are a lot of people that dislike pers, but I've only seen a handful. Not starting **** with you, not calling you a liar, but I think you may have exaggerated a bit.

As for why people are going for mrms recast isn't because of pers, but because they feel the stock cowl isn't accurate enough, not because of pers. as for the face plate...well, I also purchased Robbie and Kai's faceplates because they are superior to the stock face plates. Again, nothing to do with pers.

Every DX thus far has benefitted from pers. it's unfortunate you don't feel that way, but your posts do contain a hint of a condescending attitude. Or maybe your hatred for pers is so great that anyone supporting it can make your posts come off a little aggressive.

But please don't let this turn into another "I hate dx12" fiasco.

 

[Remy]

Re: HOT TOYS : MMS DX 12 - The Dark Knight Rises - BATMAN / BRUCE WAYNE Full Specs &

I am in agreement here with DarkAvatar, I hate PERS.
I understand the concept, and if it was truly utilized well, yes, it would have added realism.

The problem is its a gimmick that HT are using that's forced.
Several factors why for me it doesnt work.
One, many times they sacrifice eye shape for PERS so it throws off the sculpt. At 1/6 scale when you have a millimeter room for error, that's a lot.
Another big factor is that in comparison to 1:1 scale busts that looks ultrarealistic, the 1:1 uses medical grade translucent eyes that gives it a realistic look.
HT doesnt use translucent eyes, they're flat sunburst painted that looks very toyish, hence what is DA's point, it ruins mosts sculpts cause it looks like a toy.

The painting process have now progressed so much that you can apply a paint technique to mimic layers giving an illusion of translucency.
That's why I favor painted more than PERS.
The only PERS I think that was utilized well is 89 Bats. The rest, when well lit, it looks very fake cause of the way its painted. No translucency so it makes it look like the eyes are flat. Again, very toyish looking.

Now if they were utilized well, and HT doesnt force the look and sculpts the person's eyes according to its true shape, and uses translucent eyes, I'm all for it.
Here's an example of glass eyes on 1/6 that's done well.
If PERS was like this, I'm on board. but since it isnt...cant stand it.

 

[The Skull]

Re: HOT TOYS : MMS DX 12 - The Dark Knight Rises - BATMAN / BRUCE WAYNE Full Specs &

I am in agreement here with DarkAvatar, I hate PERS.
I understand the concept, and if it was truly utilized well, yes, it would have added realism.

The problem is its a gimmick that HT are using that's forced.
Several factors why for me it doesnt work.
One, many times they sacrifice eye shape for PERS so it throws off the sculpt. At 1/6 scale when you have a millimeter room for error, that's a lot.
Another big factor is that in comparison to 1:1 scale busts that looks ultrarealistic, the 1:1 uses medical grade translucent eyes that gives it a realistic look.
HT doesnt use translucent eyes, they're flat sunburst painted that looks very toyish, hence what is DA's point, it ruins mosts sculpts cause it looks like a toy.

The painting process have now progressed so much that you can apply a paint technique to mimic layers giving an illusion of translucency.
That's why I favor painted more than PERS.
The only PERS I think that was utilized well is 89 Bats. The rest, when well lit, it looks very fake cause of the way its painted. No translucency so it makes it look like the eyes are flat. Again, very toyish looking.

Now if they were utilized well, and HT doesnt force the look and sculpts the person's eyes according to its true shape, and uses translucent eyes, I'm all for it.
Here's an example of glass eyes on 1/6 that's done well.
If PERS was like this, I'm on board. but since it isnt...cant stand it.

AND I started a thread about this very subject and it can be found here

https://www.sideshowcollectors.com/forums/showthread.php?t=124667

Most people don't like pers for some of the reasons listed by remy and more. It can be a cool feature if done right and adds to posing options but it has never improved one sculpt and only detracts from the realism unfortunetly.