1/6 Hot Toys MMS200 - Man of Steel: Superman Collectible Figure

[Dr.Mirakle32]

Re: MMS200 - Man of Steel: Superman Collectible Figure

I think SUPERMAN RETURNS is a masterpiece for what it was trying to accomplish. If you go in expecting a loud, summer action movie (which is understandable,) you'll be disappointed and bored.

But if you approach it with the right mindset, in that it's an arthouse character study about an icon facing an existential crisis, it's quite moving and has alot of heart. For that, I'll take it over MOS. While MOS did improve on SR in some aspects, it went too full-retard in the opposite direction.

 

[jra81984]

Re: MMS200 - Man of Steel: Superman Collectible Figure

I think SUPERMAN RETURNS is a masterpiece for what it was trying to accomplish. If you go in expecting a loud, summer action movie (which is understandable,) you'll be disappointed and bored.

But if you approach it with the right mindset, in that it's an arthouse character study about an icon facing an existential crisis, it's quite moving and has alot of heart. For that, I'll take it over MOS. While MOS did improve on SR in some aspects, it went too full-retard in the opposite direction.

I feel the same way! I liked the movie for what it was trying to do. It fell behind because of the new wave of gritty superhero movies.

 

[Mike86]

Re: MMS200 - Man of Steel: Superman Collectible Figure

No Superman Returns didn't work because it tried to be a sequel to a twenty-eight year old movie instead of taking on it's own identity. It was a bad nostalgia fueled idea from the get go.

 

[jedijim3002]

Re: MMS200 - Man of Steel: Superman Collectible Figure

^^ In your opinion of course which not everyone on this board agrees with. I loved SR. It had its weak moments, like every other superman movie, but it was still worthy of being called a good superman movie. Catching the plane in the baseball stadium was the best all American Superman scene of any movie. Nothing from any of the other superman movies can top that scene. I'd challenge anyone to say different.

Yes it was a lot more of a love story but no more than The Donner films. I found Lex to be much more diabolical than Hackman but I don't think that role called for it. It was more of a game in those movies but in SR it was personal and it was all about revenge. Stabbing him with the Kryptonite shiv and watching him fall to his death was one of the most powerful scenes of hatred I've seen in a superman film.

Yes there was quite a bit of nostalgia and it built off the success of those original movies but that doesn't mean it was crap. When's the last time something original came out of Hollywood that didn't suck?

I still love the Donner films, Man of Steel, and Superman Returns. There is enough love for them all.

 

[snoop101]

Re: MMS200 - Man of Steel: Superman Collectible Figure

I think SUPERMAN RETURNS is a masterpiece for what it was trying to accomplish. If you go in expecting a loud, summer action movie (which is understandable,) you'll be disappointed and bored.

But if you approach it with the right mindset, in that it's an arthouse character study about an icon facing an existential crisis, it's quite moving and has alot of heart. For that, I'll take it over MOS. While MOS did improve on SR in some aspects, it went too full-retard in the opposite direction.

That's the problem with it though, what in the hell was it trying to accomplish?

No Superman Returns didn't work because it tried to be a sequel to a twenty-eight year old movie instead of taking on it's own identity. It was a bad nostalgia fueled idea from the get go.

 

[DGTWoodward]

Re: MMS200 - Man of Steel: Superman Collectible Figure

I think SUPERMAN RETURNS is a masterpiece for what it was trying to accomplish. If you go in expecting a loud, summer action movie (which is understandable,) you'll be disappointed and bored.

But if you approach it with the right mindset, in that it's an arthouse character study about an icon facing an existential crisis, it's quite moving and has alot of heart. For that, I'll take it over MOS. While MOS did improve on SR in some aspects, it went too full-retard in the opposite direction.

I couldn't agree more. It tried to give Superman, as a character, a human heart. It was not by any stretch a perfect film. But it tried to connect Superman with the audience in ways that MoS just did not even get close to.

No Superman Returns didn't work because it tried to be a sequel to a twenty-eight year old movie instead of taking on it's own identity. It was a bad nostalgia fueled idea from the get go.

And yet WB OKed it, greenlit the script and paid for it, so they knew what they were getting before one single frame was shot and it still managed to make more money that Batman Begins - the wunderkind Nolan product of the time. And that was with all the money spent by WB on all the failed Superman relaunch projects upto that time (including countless scripts, rewrites, re-rewrites, Nicholas Cage in a rubber Superman suit, gay robots, the power's in his suit and it's alive and it lives in a tin can, planned fights with polar bears and mechanical Spiders that certain lunatic hairdressers wanted to put into it), the whole of that cost was added to the cost of producing '..Returns'.

So, Remind me...why did BB get a sequel and not SR?

Superman Returns, with all of its flaws (stalker Superman, that kid, possibly the worst Lois Lane in history, another origin story, Spacey as Lex, SM not given enough super things to do) was still a real and better Superman film than MoS.

Mos was like everyone feared it would be. Grim, dark and moody. It was not in anyway encouraging or uplifting and at its heart had no genuine humanity. Exactly the Nolan influence that was so perfect for Batman...but was totally wrong for Superman.

 

[DGTWoodward]

Re: MMS200 - Man of Steel: Superman Collectible Figure

I still love the Donner films, Man of Steel, and Superman Returns. There is enough love for them all.

A very balanced opinion that i agree with. I did enjoy MoS and I already have the 3D Steelbook edition on PO with Amazon, just to be clear, but I don't place it at the 'Best Superman Film Ever Made' position.

I also think it would not necessarily need very much to make the next film a more or less perfect SM movie...not too much at all.

 

[DiFabio]

Re: MMS200 - Man of Steel: Superman Collectible Figure

There are only two Superman films that matter and they're over *gasp* 33 years old.

The other 4 don't exist. They're either too dull, light and cheesy or too dark, boring and somber. Keep Richard Pryor, Nuclear Man, excessive Christ-like poses, and droll politics out of the equation. I'd rather see a moral and honest man look through a reporter's dress and tell her what color panties she's wearing than see him fight people on a moon badly, cry about having a son or cry about breaking a villain's neck.

As soon as you darken Superman's red, yellow and blue tights, he becomes less appealing. Deduct points if he's rarely smiling.

 

[Dr.Mirakle32]

Re: MMS200 - Man of Steel: Superman Collectible Figure

A very balanced opinion that i agree with. I did enjoy MoS and I already have the 3D Steelbook edition on PO with Amazon, just to be clear, but I don't place it at the 'Best Superman Film Ever Made' position.

I also think it would not necessarily need very much to make the next film a more or less perfect SM movie...not too much at all.

But the thing is, I don't think Snyder really understands the character. He's got a flair for visuals, but I don't think he gets the value of the symbolism, or what makes Superman unique.

Singer used his Christ imagery to serve the story. Snyder shoehorned random shots of Superman in a cross pose, and sitting in front of a stained glass Jesus, because "He's Superman, which means he's like Jesus. And that would be totally cool if we did this to hit that nail on the head (or wrist.)"

In SR, Supes is very much sacrificing his life to save countless lives. In MOS, he is a harbinger of doom. His very existence is a liability to the people of earth, and he ultimately "saves the day" with an apocalyptic grudge match. Nothing wrong with mindless action in a comic book movie; But don't try to pretend it's something deeper than it is.

 

[Dr.Mirakle32]

Re: MMS200 - Man of Steel: Superman Collectible Figure

That's the problem with it though, what in the hell was it trying to accomplish?

"it's an arthouse character study about an icon facing an existential crisis..."

 

[snoop101]

Re: MMS200 - Man of Steel: Superman Collectible Figure

"it's an arthouse character study about an icon facing an existential crisis..."

"Arthouse" shouldn't be a term used to describe Superman Returns.

 

[jedijim3002]

Re: MMS200 - Man of Steel: Superman Collectible Figure

I think the biggest problem we have with newer superman movies is that the old ones exist. We are constantly comparing one to another.

If the Donner films were never made and Superman returns was the first we would have had need for an hour of origin story like Superman the Movie. That would have changed its dynamic completely.

If Man of Steel was the first people would have had a way different view of superman. There is no way to judge each movie fairly and separate because we've seen the others. It's only natural to compare and say well because I've seen this one, that one is too violent.

Some people have a hard time letting go of the past so nothing new could ever compare to "the greatness" that once was.

 

[Mike86]

Re: MMS200 - Man of Steel: Superman Collectible Figure

And yet WB OKed it, greenlit the script and paid for it, so they knew what they were getting before one single frame was shot and it still managed to make more money that Batman Begins - the wunderkind Nolan product of the time. And that was with all the money spent by WB on all the failed Superman relaunch projects upto that time (including countless scripts, rewrites, re-rewrites, Nicholas Cage in a rubber Superman suit, gay robots, the power's in his suit and it's alive and it lives in a tin can, planned fights with polar bears and mechanical Spiders that certain lunatic hairdressers wanted to put into it), the whole of that cost was added to the cost of producing '..Returns'.

So, Remind me...why did BB get a sequel and not SR?

I think in some ways Superman Returns succeeded but it did so by taking people on a nostalgia trip. In my opinion there's only so much that you can do with that and I think that Warner Bros. realized this. Also while it made money it was critically not very well liked at all and the fans didn't care much for it either which probably went against it somewhat. I think a lot of people had been clamoring for a new take on Superman and not just another rehash which is basically all Superman Returns was. It has it's place but I dunno it wasn't what was needed to carry the character forward if you ask me.

With Batman Begins it was a fresh start on the Batman character after the bomb that was Batman & Robin so it needed to win back the audience and critics. I also think that there was more to build off of with the direction that Nolan took the film so that's probably a part of why it got a sequel.

Superman Returns, with all of its flaws (stalker Superman, that kid, possibly the worst Lois Lane in history, another origin story, Spacey as Lex, SM not given enough super things to do) was still a real and better Superman film than MoS.

Mos was like everyone feared it would be. Grim, dark and moody. It was not in anyway encouraging or uplifting and at its heart had no genuine humanity. Exactly the Nolan influence that was so perfect for Batman...but was totally wrong for Superman.

No genuine humanity? A big aspect of the film was that Clark is realizing he's an outsider and is trying to find himself and understand his place in our world. It was all about him trying to understand his humanity and journey to becoming Superman.

I think it depends on what you define as "real" Superman. If you think of him as the boy scout who always does the right thing then yeah, Superman Returns probably did that better. If you're tired of that image of Superman (which I think a lot of people have been for a while) and wanted to see him humanized a bit more I think that Man of Steel did that better. Don't get me wrong I don't think that Man of Steel was exactly perfect either but what I liked about it so much was that it was such a refreshingly new take on the character with a lot of his traits in tact so it gave a balance of new and familiarity.

 

[Double J]

Re: MMS200 - Man of Steel: Superman Collectible Figure

I think the biggest problem we have with newer superman movies is that the old ones exist. We are constantly comparing one to another.

If the Donner films were never made and Superman returns was the first we would have had need for an hour of origin story like Superman the Movie. That would have changed its dynamic completely.

If Man of Steel was the first people would have had a way different view of superman. There is no way to judge each movie fairly and separate because we've seen the others. It's only natural to compare and say well because I've seen this one, that one is too violent.

Some people have a hard time letting go of the past so nothing new could ever compare to "the greatness" that once was.

As much as I love Chris Reeve as superman. I'm so tired of hearing " Reeve is my superman and noone can compare to him". Thats total bs. Look at superman 3 and 4. It had the great CR playing supes and the movies still sucked. For me I put MOS right up there with the first 2 Superman movies. That may seem like blasphemy to some. But that's my opinion.

 

[Username]

Re: MMS200 - Man of Steel: Superman Collectible Figure

I think SUPERMAN RETURNS is a masterpiece for what it was trying to accomplish. If you go in expecting a loud, summer action movie (which is understandable,) you'll be disappointed and bored.

But if you approach it with the right mindset, in that it's an arthouse character study about an icon facing an existential crisis, it's quite moving and has alot of heart. For that, I'll take it over MOS. While MOS did improve on SR in some aspects, it went too full-retard in the opposite direction.

Where is the LIKE button???
QFT.

 

[Cap'n Cook]

Re: MMS200 - Man of Steel: Superman Collectible Figure

I think SUPERMAN RETURNS is a masterpiece for what it was trying to accomplish. If you go in expecting a loud, summer action movie (which is understandable,) you'll be disappointed and bored.

But if you approach it with the right mindset, in that it's an arthouse character study about an icon facing an existential crisis, it's quite moving and has alot of heart. For that, I'll take it over MOS. While MOS did improve on SR in some aspects, it went too full-retard in the opposite direction.

Well said.

Pisses on MOS.

 

[jab1023]

Re: MMS200 - Man of Steel: Superman Collectible Figure

As much as I love Chris Reeve as superman. I'm so tired of hearing " Reeve is my superman and noone can compare to him". Thats total bs. Look at superman 3 and 4. It had the great CR playing supes and the movies still sucked. For me I put MOS right up there with the first 2 Superman movies. That may seem like blasphemy to some. But that's my opinion.

I prefer MOS to the first two Reeve films myself. But I agree, that was in about every negative professional review of MOS. I thought Returns was pretty decent too, but I liked MOS notably more.

 

[snoop101]

Re: MMS200 - Man of Steel: Superman Collectible Figure

I think in some ways Superman Returns succeeded but it did so by taking people on a nostalgia trip. In my opinion there's only so much that you can do with that and I think that Warner Bros. realized this. Also while it made money it was critically not very well liked at all and the fans didn't care much for it either which probably went against it somewhat. I think a lot of people had been clamoring for a new take on Superman and not just another rehash which is basically all Superman Returns was. It has it's place but I dunno it wasn't what was needed to carry the character forward if you ask me.

With Batman Begins it was a fresh start on the Batman character after the bomb that was Batman & Robin so it needed to win back the audience and critics. I also think that there was more to build off of with the direction that Nolan took the film so that's probably a part of why it got a sequel.


No genuine humanity? A big aspect of the film was that Clark is realizing he's an outsider and is trying to find himself and understand his place in our world. It was all about him trying to understand his humanity and journey to becoming Superman.

I think it depends on what you define as "real" Superman. If you think of him as the boy scout who always does the right thing then yeah, Superman Returns probably did that better. If you're tired of that image of Superman (which I think a lot of people have been for a while) and wanted to see him humanized a bit more I think that Man of Steel did that better. Don't get me wrong I don't think that Man of Steel was exactly perfect either but what I liked about it so much was that it was such a refreshingly new take on the character with a lot of his traits in tact so it gave a balance of new and familiarity.

Agreed. You summed it up pretty well.

Pisses on MOS.

I'd rather watch Man of Steels credits for two hours straight than Superman Returns.

 

[The Iron Koob]

Re: MMS200 - Man of Steel: Superman Collectible Figure

I enjoy some scenes of Superman Returns. I think future DC films aren't going to give Superman as much screen time as MOS so I think Superman fans will be happy that they get to watch all that action in MOS in hindsight. There were some pretty cool set pieces in that movie.

 

[Double J]

Re: MMS200 - Man of Steel: Superman Collectible Figure

I thought superman returns was good. But it doesn't hold a candle to MOS.