Logan (New Wolverine movie March 3rd 2017)

[Khev]

Prepare for Khev to bring up Cap throwing that soldier off the jet in TFA.

Why am I defending the Cap movies when I have pturtle.

You know what's what.

 

[pturtle]

Except for the Cap movies (the other MCU films can take a flying leap .) I've never once cringed or let out an "ooh!" watching a pre-Logan X-Men death the way I did when Cap sent the guy through the propeller or Bucky kicked the dude through the Quinjet turbine.

I think Magneto slowly impaling Wolverine with metal then chucking him into water were he can perpetually drown was far worse.

Why am I defending the Cap movies when I have pturtle.

You know what's what.

 

[Khev]

Meh, poking immortals doesn't count.

 

[ZaCHw117]

Except for the Cap movies (the other MCU films can take a flying leap .) I've never once cringed or let out an "ooh!" watching a pre-Logan X-Men death the way I did when Cap sent the guy through the propeller or Bucky kicked the dude through the Quinjet turbine.

I'd say just the opening scene of Logan is better than both of those, easily.

I could watch the opening of Logan on repeat and never get tired of it.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

The MCU is notorious for "zero wound penetration"

Well, performance issues aren’t uncommon, one in five…

 

[Khev]

I'd say just the opening scene of Logan is better than both of those, easily.

I could watch the opening of Logan on repeat and never get tired of it.

Which is why I gave the "pre-Logan" disclaimer.

 

[SNIKT1950]

Well, Charles and Logan got sick, and Charles alone could have killed every mutant using cerebro, so I think it's totally possible.

If it was a year, then I'd say it's silly, but 5 years seems reasonable.

Yeah, its not ridiculous at all.

Logan was already suffering from Adamantium poisoning by the end of DOFP (the white streaks in his hair). Xavier's dementia killed the core X-Men five years later and Transigen's chemicals took care of the rest.

In the new timeline the world doesn't end in the 2020s. The X-Men do.

 

[pturtle]

Yeah, its not ridiculous at all.

Logan was already suffering from Adamantium poisoning by the end of DOFP (the white streaks in his hair). Xavier's dementia killed the core X-Men five years later and Transigen's chemicals took care of the rest.

In the new timeline the world doesn't end in the 2020s. The X-Men do.

The white hair had nothing to do with the poisoning

Singer said the hair was there obviously to pay homage to the comic and they were indicative of the stress Logan had been dealing with. Snikt, the continuity in these movies are ridiculous, why defend it?

And I was saying it was ridiculous because DOFP was all about bringing back the X-Men, then 2 movies later they kill them all again. I have no problem with it, in fact I like how ridiculous it is

 

[DiFabio]

This whole Dark Knight phenomenon is just obnoxious, and that's coming from someone that loves TDK. Great comic book movies have existed before and after TDK and now anything that pops up with even the slightest hint of quality of raising the standard is pitted against it. It's not just like this here, but everywhere I see praise for Logan I see a trail of "hurr durr, but TDK! TDK! TDK!" following it. Don't worry, we'll never forget, not with people having to constantly remind everyone about it.







It's like I'm in some kind of ****ing Twilight Zone. That and the ****ing OCD cretins that constantly gravitate back to Heath Ledger Joker doll discussions over in the DC forums. They're still arguing about the same thousand dollar custom clothes and headsculpts.



First Class was great. I walk out of it and go online and there it is . . . people talking about how TDK and Batman Begins "CHANGED EVERYTHING!" Despite two great X-Men movies before Nolan Bats was even a thing, and people won't shut the **** up about how the Nolan Batman movies paved the way for X-Men First Class and serious REBOOTS. Then I remember loving the living hell out of Captain America: The Winter Soldier and wanting to talk about Captain America. And there it was. TDK. "A WELL DONE POLITICAL THRILLER!? Oh mah, dats like muh crime drama TDK! Robert Redford was no Heath Ledger tho!" Well no ****. Anyone remember the Amazing Spider-Man 2 hype? I do. People were claiming that it was going to be the "DARK KNIGHT of Spider-Man movies!", whatever the hell that means. Then it came out, blew up, fell flat on it's face and instead became a Batman Forever tier movie.

And now we have Logan, a great film in it's own right and one of the better comic book movies out there, being put up against TDK. Logan and TDK have nothing in common with each other except fanboys discussing them in the same sentences and paragraphs for reasons I cannot fathom. Logan is a ****ing western/road trip movie, it couldn't be farther from TDK both in tone and style or execution. In fact, the Nolan Bat flicks have more in common with Man of Steel and Batman v Superman than ****ing Logan. But because Logan is getting praise and applause for what filmmakers did with it, there's just got to be that nagging little nerdy magpie that comes out of the woodwork to constantly remind people of TDK it's place in CBM history. Page. After page. After page. Is it a fear of TDK somehow getting "dethroned"? Is it autism? I have no idea. Whatever it is, it's annoying.



The Dark Knight had it's day. 2008 was a great, enjoyable time and we'll never forget it. Like all great movies, it has it's place in popular culture. It was also ****ing 9 years ago and all of it's discussions of it's quality and merit were bled out of it within the first three years of it. It was at the crux of online movie analysis with "DARK KNIGHT PHILOSOPHY" blogs, "DARK KNIGHT" youtube analysis reviews, etc. etc. For the most part, all of us here have talked about TDK ad nauseam. That goes allll the way back to the trailer in 2007. In those years, TDK burned itself out pretty quick. There's nothing left to discover or revisit with it because nobody will let it be forgotten. When I see stuff like this, it just turns me cynical to TDK and all I want to do is think and talk about it's flaws. Can't even go a few days without people bringing up TDK and throwing up stupid ranks instead of giving Logan (and other good comic book films) the same examination that TDK got in spades. It's ridiculous.

Here's to you TDK, you ****.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

And I was saying it was ridiculous because DOFP was all about bringing back the X-Men, then 2 movies later they kill them all again. I have no problem with it, in fact I like how ridiculous it is

Hey man, that's life!

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Spoiler

This whole Dark Knight phenomenon is just obnoxious, and that's coming from someone that loves TDK. Great comic book movies have existed before and after TDK and now anything that pops up with even the slightest hint of quality of raising the standard is pitted against it. It's not just like this here, but everywhere I see praise for Logan I see a trail of "hurr durr, but TDK! TDK! TDK!" following it. Don't worry, we'll never forget, not with people having to constantly remind everyone about it.




View attachment 329659


It's like I'm in some kind of ****ing Twilight Zone. That and the ****ing OCD cretins that constantly gravitate back to Heath Ledger Joker doll discussions over in the DC forums. They're still arguing about the same thousand dollar custom clothes and headsculpts.



First Class was great. I walk out of it and go online and there it is . . . people talking about how TDK and Batman Begins "CHANGED EVERYTHING!" Despite two great X-Men movies before Nolan Bats was even a thing, and people won't shut the **** up about how the Nolan Batman movies paved the way for X-Men First Class and serious REBOOTS. Then I remember loving the living hell out of Captain America: The Winter Soldier and wanting to talk about Captain America. And there it was. TDK. "A WELL DONE POLITICAL THRILLER!? Oh mah, dats like muh crime drama TDK! Robert Redford was no Heath Ledger tho!" Well no ****. Anyone remember the Amazing Spider-Man 2 hype? I do. People were claiming that it was going to be the "DARK KNIGHT of Spider-Man movies!", whatever the hell that means. Then when it came out, blew up, fell on it's face and became a Batman Forever tier movie.

And now we have Logan, a great film in it's own right and one of the better comic book movies out there, being put up against TDK. Logan and TDK have nothing in common with each other except fanboys discussing them in the same sentences and paragraphs for reasons I cannot fathom. Logan is a ****ing western/road trip movie, it couldn't be farther from TDK both in tone and style or execution. In fact, the Nolan Bat flicks have more in common with Man of Steel and Batman v Superman than ****ing Logan. But because Logan is getting praise and applause for what filmmakers did with it, there's just got to be that nagging little nerdy magpie that comes out of the woodwork to constantly remind people of TDK it's place in CBM history. Page. After page. After page. Is it a fear of TDK somehow getting "dethroned"? Is it autism? I have no idea. Whatever it is, it's annoying.



The Dark Knight had it's day. 2008 was a great, enjoyable time and we'll never forget it. Like all great movies, it has it's place in popular culture. It was also ****ing 9 years ago and all of it's discussions of it's quality and merit were bled out of it within the first three years of it. It was at the crux of online movie analysis with "DARK KNIGHT PHILOSOPHY" blogs, "DARK KNIGHT" youtube analysis reviews, etc. etc. For the most part, all of us here have talked about TDK ad nauseam. That goes allll the way back to the trailer in 2007. In those years, TDK burned itself out pretty quick. There's nothing left to discover or revisit with it because nobody will let it be forgotten. When I see stuff like this, it just turns me cynical to TDK and all I want to do is think and talk about it's flaws. Can't even go a few days without people bringing up TDK and throwing up stupid ranks instead of giving Logan (and other good comic book films) the same examination that TDK got in spades. It's ridiculous.

Here's to you TDK, you ****.

Whoa! That post is TDK of X Men posts.

To be fair, people did and still do the same with The Godfather 2 and ESB, when talking about sequels.

It's not unprecedented, and considering how popular the super hero genre has become in the last 20 years, it makes sense that people will use one very popular film as an example of excellence.

People do it in every area, even in sports, a day doesn't go by where ESPN or people online don't talk about how great Jordan was when talking about Lebron or any other current great NBA player.

 

[pturtle]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Khev]

This whole Dark Knight phenomenon is just obnoxious, and that's coming from someone that loves TDK. Great comic book movies have existed before and after TDK and now anything that pops up with even the slightest hint of quality of raising the standard is pitted against it. It's not just like this here, but everywhere I see praise for Logan I see a trail of "hurr durr, but TDK! TDK! TDK!" following it. Don't worry, we'll never forget, not with people having to constantly remind everyone about it.




View attachment 329659


It's like I'm in some kind of ****ing Twilight Zone. That and the ****ing OCD cretins that constantly gravitate back to Heath Ledger Joker doll discussions over in the DC forums. They're still arguing about the same thousand dollar custom clothes and headsculpts.



First Class was great. I walk out of it and go online and there it is . . . people talking about how TDK and Batman Begins "CHANGED EVERYTHING!" Despite two great X-Men movies before Nolan Bats was even a thing, and people won't shut the **** up about how the Nolan Batman movies paved the way for X-Men First Class and serious REBOOTS. Then I remember loving the living hell out of Captain America: The Winter Soldier and wanting to talk about Captain America. And there it was. TDK. "A WELL DONE POLITICAL THRILLER!? Oh mah, dats like muh crime drama TDK! Robert Redford was no Heath Ledger tho!" Well no ****. Anyone remember the Amazing Spider-Man 2 hype? I do. People were claiming that it was going to be the "DARK KNIGHT of Spider-Man movies!", whatever the hell that means. Then it came out, blew up, fell flat on it's face and instead became a Batman Forever tier movie.

And now we have Logan, a great film in it's own right and one of the better comic book movies out there, being put up against TDK. Logan and TDK have nothing in common with each other except fanboys discussing them in the same sentences and paragraphs for reasons I cannot fathom. Logan is a ****ing western/road trip movie, it couldn't be farther from TDK both in tone and style or execution. In fact, the Nolan Bat flicks have more in common with Man of Steel and Batman v Superman than ****ing Logan. But because Logan is getting praise and applause for what filmmakers did with it, there's just got to be that nagging little nerdy magpie that comes out of the woodwork to constantly remind people of TDK it's place in CBM history. Page. After page. After page. Is it a fear of TDK somehow getting "dethroned"? Is it autism? I have no idea. Whatever it is, it's annoying.



The Dark Knight had it's day. 2008 was a great, enjoyable time and we'll never forget it. Like all great movies, it has it's place in popular culture. It was also ****ing 9 years ago and all of it's discussions of it's quality and merit were bled out of it within the first three years of it. It was at the crux of online movie analysis with "DARK KNIGHT PHILOSOPHY" blogs, "DARK KNIGHT" youtube analysis reviews, etc. etc. For the most part, all of us here have talked about TDK ad nauseam. That goes allll the way back to the trailer in 2007. In those years, TDK burned itself out pretty quick. There's nothing left to discover or revisit with it because nobody will let it be forgotten. When I see stuff like this, it just turns me cynical to TDK and all I want to do is think and talk about it's flaws. Can't even go a few days without people bringing up TDK and throwing up stupid ranks instead of giving Logan (and other good comic book films) the same examination that TDK got in spades. It's ridiculous.

Here's to you TDK, you ****.

And that, good sir, is why I'm hella glad that Rogue One *didn't* break box office records, get tons of Oscar nominations, or have every second of screen time exposed, analyzed, and completely deconstructed. You guys can all forget about it when the next big "thing" comes along while I go sit off in the corner anxiously awaiting the blu-ray.

Nevertheless there's a reason that all these discussions go back to TDK and it's because deep down everyone knows it's the one to beat. It's just hard to imagine any other cbm taking on a life of its own the way TDK did.

 

[Khev]

Whoa! That post is TDK of X Men posts.

To be fair, people did and still do the same with The Godfather 2 and ESB, when talking about sequels.

It's not unprecedented, and considering how popular the super hero genre has become in the last 20 years, it makes sense that people will use one very popular film as an example of excellence.

People do it in every area, even in sports, a day doesn't go by where ESPN or people online don't talk about how great Jordan was when talking about Lebron or any other current great NBA player.

Yep. None of these movies exist in a vacuum and recognizing the context of what came before is often a fun way to determine whether each new film is pushing a genre forward or backward whether it be on a personal or cultural level.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Nevertheless there's a reason that all these discussions go back to TDK and it's because deep down everyone knows it's the one to beat. It's just hard to imagine any other cbm taking on a life of its own the way TDK did.

I wonder if that will change?

Has TDK reached that "holy" place where even if "better" films get made, it doesn't affect its status or place as a great film in people's minds?

If I say, name a great trilogy or the greatest trilogy, you might say, LOTR is the greatest trilogy ever made, and even though it may very well be the greatest trilogy, the OG SW trilogy sort of exists in this "holy" territory in pop culture that doesn't allow the films to be forgotten or overshadowed by new greatness. Does that make sense...or is that just my "herbal tea" talking ?

 

[DiFabio]

Nevertheless there's a reason that all these discussions go back to TDK and it's because deep down everyone knows it's the one to beat. It's just hard to imagine any other cbm taking on a life of its own the way TDK did.

TDK > Rogue One, can't argue with ya there.

But back to the realm of the almighty CBM. What makes TDK the one to beat exactly? It's box office? Already happened. Oscars? Other comic book movies have gotten em' before and after (I mean hell, Suicide Squad just got one). What is TDK the king of exactly? Who is even dictating such a notion? Is there a CBM authority or god I'm not aware of? Think of all your favorite comic book movies Khev. Think of all the successful ones you've seen in your life time that have been successful in their execution and even go above and beyond that. I'm sure you could list on both hands, character driven scripts that balance the story, action and spectacle just as well as TDK, if not better. Now in thinking about those movies, what exactly makes makes TDK better than them? Spider-Man 2 didn't need Heath Ledger in it to be great. Winter Soldier didn't have to be "a serious crime drama inspired by Heat" to be lauded over. Logan didn't need a suspenseful interrogation scene for people to go gaga over it.


I'm a Batman fan (before X-Men, Spider-Man, etc) and I love TDK, but it's become a meme at this point, especially in "top 10" lists. I usually hate the term "overrated", but man oh man. Some of these movies balance everything better than TDK did, and yet they don't even get half the exposure TDK has gotten. It's stupid.

To be fair, people did and still do the same with The Godfather 2 and ESB, when talking about sequels.

True, but does it make it any less annoying or weird?

Empire Strikes Back is my second favorite of the Star Wars films and one of my favorite movies period, but I've always gotten a kick out of the hyperbole that surrounds it. "Woah, that sequel just did an Empire Strikes Back! My gosh it was sooooooooo dark!", "That right there is the dark chapter, literally the Empire Strikes Back of the *insert franchise/saga here* !". Things going to **** and the stakes getting higher in the sequel have always been a staple in storytelling.

Empire is about as dark as the benign mole on my ass. Yeah, maybe if you're a kid (or Luke Skywalker), the villain revealing that he's the protagonist's father and Han becoming a living breathing statue is gut wrenching and brutal, but for everyone else? Eh, big whoop. Wow, the Rebel Alliance experienced a small defeat, their hidden base was found! Suck it up, nobody died. Compare that to the last couple of days Logan experienced and it's quite literally child's play. Luke even got a cool robotic hand out of that ****ing deal. I wish I had a cool robotic hand.


Honestly, I think I've reached the point where I just view the fan base and community of film buffs and comic geeks and toy collectors as a complete joke. Everything is so exaggerated now. I think things were cooler when I was a kid and it was just me, my friends and the magazines where this kind of content was made available. Then again even the magazines/books had those letter columns/letter to the editor in the back where people were acting like cringe worthy weirdos. The hive mind that goes on online (which I've been guilty of being apart of) is just too funny though. I see it in videos, blogs, forums, it's just amazing. It's like as the years progress, people lose their critical thinking skills. Saying something like "THE DARK KNIGHT IS THE EPITOME OF COMIC BOOK MOVIES" is just a parody to me now. What does that even mean? How does someone that likes anything even have a "#1". It's stupid. Most of these things have been revolutionary and great in their own way. They're all of their time, build on what was done before and should be appreciated as such, merits, flaws and all. Except Rogue One, that ain't special.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

True, but does it make it any less annoying or weird?

Sure, it gets annoying. I'm not defending it, but I understand it because it's nothing new.

When it comes to TDK, I can see why it has such an appeal, and you jokingly mentioned part of it in a previous page. It's Batman...but there might be other elements.

It's probably a combination of certain factors.

1. It's Batman...the most mainstream superhero

2. The overall quality (acting, characters, story, cinematography, score...etc)

3. Some nostalgia...believe it or not, it been almost 10 years

4. Ledger's death...maybe

5. Box office success

6. The year/timing it came out...before the influx of superhero films

7.It hit a cultural nerve...which isn't easy to explain or recreate

If we look at this list of "great superhero films", can we say the rest have all those elements? They might have a few, but maybe not all.

 

[Victοr]

5 MCU flicks, 2 Fox flicks, 2 WB/DC flicks, and 1 Sony flick. Interesting...

*In before "RT/Metacritic/IMDB/any review that's not mine doesn't count" comments*

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

That list isn't completely accurate. DR. Strange has a higher rating than Winter Soldier.

 

[Victοr]

That list isn't completely accurate. DR. Strange has a higher rating than Winter Soldier.