Logan (New Wolverine movie March 3rd 2017)

[GasparZizou]

Yeah I was just playing to the hyperbole, there are MCU movies that feel like kid flicks but CW isn't one of them imo, it's serious enough.

 

[YoNoSe]

Yeah I was just playing to the hyperbole, there are MCU movies that feel like kid flicks but CW isn't one of them imo, it's serious enough.

Yeah, there is that element in the MCU, for sure. It's just become the baa-baa complaint, and somehow it shows up everywhere as if the MCU is the cinematic Big Brother. I can only speak from my experience but in the circles I travel here I'm always surprised when I see someone say "you can't bash Marvel on SSF" or the like; I feel like that's all I read.

And I don't even LOVE CW as a whole...more like I really, really enjoy the parts. TWS is a much better movie IMO.

 

[SNIKT1950]

Yeah, there is that element in the MCU, for sure. It's just become the baa-baa complaint, and somehow it shows up everywhere as if the MCU is the cinematic Big Brother. I can only speak from my experience but in the circles I travel here I'm always surprised when I see someone say "you can't bash Marvel on SSF" or the like; I feel like that's all I read.

And I don't even LOVE CW as a whole...more like I really, really enjoy the parts. TWS is a much better movie IMO.

TWS had weight. CW didn't.

 

[YoNoSe]

TWS had weight. CW didn't.

I thought the reveal of Bucky killing Tony's parents (I know some people said they saw that coming but I didn't), the fight between Tony and Steve, and Peggy's funeral were some of the heaviest moments in the MCU series. And it was rewarding to me because all of that built on the history of the characters.

If that didn't work for you, I'm not saying you're wrong.

But by the same token, I throw my hands up at the X-Men continuity because it is a mess and at this point the character relationships don't mean anything to me. A firm reboot would have been waaayyyy better than what they did IMO. Trying to repair/reboot/recast took a huge toll on the identity of the characters for me. That's why I'm actually getting cautiously optimistic about Logan - seeing Wolverine taking responsibility for (Stewart) Xavier gives me residual feels because I used to care about their stories.

 

[a-dev]

TWS had weight. CW didn't.

I can't see how that's true....at all. TWS had Hydra taking over and it had Cap finding out his old friend didn't die afterall and trying to bring him back from his brain-reconditioning. CW furthered the latter and brought in some serious conflict with Tony Stark. The seeming expectation that all the competing Avengers should have wanted to murder eachother over the accords is kinda ridiculous. However if that's what one requires it did come in later - Stark wanted to kill Bucky in revenge for his parents and he was willing to go through Steve to do it. Steve understood his anger but couldn't allow him to kill his friend. What's not weighty? Just because there was some jokes along the way doesn't negate any of this.

 

[SNIKT1950]

the reveal of Bucky killing Tony's parents (I know some people said they saw that coming but I didn't) & the fight between Tony and Steve were some of the heaviest moments in the MCU series.

They could have been had they been allowed to hold some weight.

Instead we were left with Bucky pointlessly alive and frozen and Steve writing a love letter/apology to Tony that pretty much negates the entire conflict the movie spent two hours building up.

Had there been real consequences to everything that happened, long-lasting effect to the events of the film, CW wouldn't have left me so incredibly disappointed.

As it stands, I was more disappointed by Civil War than I was by X-Men: Apocalypse.

Civil War had the money and tools to go really far and elevate the MCU. Instead it did nothing. Literally nothing that happened in that movie will have any effect on the future films. For Christ's sake, they couldn't even keep Rhodey in a ****ing wheelchair.

Again, a movie with "War" in the title should contain some actual war.

 

[a-dev]

I'll give you the Rhodey thing.

Cap's letter to Tony was appropriate though. I'd go so far as to say it would have been out of character for him to just leave off as they did with the fight. This Captain America would try to make amends. Besides we only see Stark reading the letter, we don't actually know his response to it. It served more as a signing off for Captain America/Steve Rogers...considering it was a Captain America film.

 

[YoNoSe]

Instead we were left with Bucky pointlessly alive and frozen and Steve writing a love letter/apology to Tony that pretty much negates the entire conflict the movie spent two hours building up.

There's much more value to him being alive than dead, dramatically. Not pointless at all.

Had there been real consequences to everything that happened, long-lasting effect to the events of the film, CW wouldn't have left me so incredibly disappointed.

The consequences remain to be seen but Rhodey's paralysis, again - more dramatic than a cheap death, IMO. The dude is f'd up forever.

As it stands, I was more disappointed by Civil War than I was by X-Men: Apocalypse.

Okay, but couldn't disagree with you more.

Literally nothing that happened

Oh boy, more hyperbole on the internetz.

For Christ's sake, they couldn't even keep Rhodey in a ****ing wheelchair.

Yeah, those always matter. Squeak squeak.

a movie with "War" in the title should contain some actual war.

Civil War references internal conflict and portrays exactly that.

 

[a-dev]

X:Men Apocalypse gave us a masterclass in actions without consequences. Magneto, far as I could tell in full control of his self, devastates the cities of the world - no doubt killing countless people in the process....and at the end he's rebuilding the school and exchanging just the usual dialogue with Xavier. Wow.

 

[jye4ever]

XMA should've ended with Magneto sacrificing himself to save the world and as a price for his actions.

 

[Victοr]

Folks do realize that even in the book Steve sent Tony a letter, right? It was in Brubaker's Cap, issue 33.





Hey, if Cap's death counts as a Civil War casualty (and, you know, not because that was part of Bru's years long storyline), this counts as an epilogue. And, as for what the letter said...

Spoiler

 

[YoNoSe]

Even Less Luthor gets it.

 

[Snake Plissken]

X:Men Apocalypse gave us a masterclass in actions without consequences. Magneto, far as I could tell in full control of his self, devastates the cities of the world - no doubt killing countless people in the process....and at the end he's rebuilding the school and exchanging just the usual dialogue with Xavier. Wow.

XMA should've ended with Magneto sacrificing himself to save the world and as a price for his actions.

I've grown extremely tired of his character literally playing the same role in every single film. In some form or another, he's always the quasi main villain of every film he's in. It's time to move on to new blood already... or a new studio. I kinda don't care anymore if Fox doesn't have it anymore. I liked DOFP fine, but Apoopylpse was an even bigger turd fest than TLS. I liked the teen mutants, but that was it.

 

[fosing]

Oh how long I've waited for this.

Thank you, God and thank you DEADPOOL for proving to Hollywood that an R-rating won't prevent you from making money.

so hobo with a shot gun is in this? nice.

 

[Snake Plissken]

Nah. But there's more hyperbole in that post than the last few pages.

But that is still the best scene of Wolverine being brutal. And proof that you don't need an R rating to effectively show his animal side.

That whole X-Mansion slaughter was great. We didn't need to see hallways covered in blood, but this was enough.

It always bugged me on the animated series how he'd like disarm whoever he was fighting with his claws, and then retract them and punch them in the face. He'd only slash up Sentinels.

 

[pturtle]

If Logan turns out to be a great film, you'll be like

I'm telling you right now, and everyone can quote me on this, Logan will be the best superhero movie of 2017.

I see this on a lot of forums but don't follow.

The only issues I can agree are problematic are Moira, Angel, Psylocke & Trask from X3 being used in First Class, Days of Future Past and X-Men: Apocalypse. Clearly Singer wanted to reboot those characters and I'm glad he did. Trask was essential to DOFP & Munn's Psylocke was far superior to the two-second Psylocke we saw in X3.

There's really nothing else that doesn't fit.

Timeline A

-4000 B.C., a teenage En Sabah Nur builds the pyramids.
-3980 B.C., En Sabah Nur, now an adult, bonds with the Apocalypse entity but is buried underground in a comatose state.
-1829, Victor Logan is born in Canada.
-1832, James Howlett/Logan is born in Canada.
-1845, Victor and James flee Canada to America.
-1861, The Logan Bros. fight in the American Civil War
-1918, The Logan Bros. fight in WWI
-1931, Erik Lehnsherr is born.
-1933, Charles Xavier is born.
-1933, Raven Darkholme is born.
-1944, The Logan Bros. fight in WWII; Erik Lehnsherr is placed in a Nazi concentration camp where he meets Sebastian Shaw; Charles Xavier's family adopts Raven Darkholme.
-1945, Wolverine is captured by the Japanese. Survives bombing of Nagasaki.
-1962, events of X-Men: First Class.
-1963, Magneto is arrested for the assassination of JFK.
-1965, Wolverine and Sabretooth fight in the Vietnam War.
-1973, Wolverine works for the mob while on leave in NYC; Wolverine then returns to Vietnam where he and Sabretooth are executed & subsequently meet Stryker; Mystique kills Bolivar Trask in France.
-1979, most of the events from X-Men Origins as Wolverine volunteers for the adamantium bonding process, loses his memory soon after during the Three Mile Island incident & Xavier rescues Scott Summers, Ororo Munroe & Pietro Maximoff from Stryker's custody.
-1986, Xavier and Magneto recruit Jean Grey.
-1996, Warren Worthington's mutation manifests.
-2003, events of X-Men (2000).
-2004, events of X2: X-Men United (2003).
-2006, events of X-Men: The Last Stand (2006).
-2007, events of The Wolverine (2013).
-2009, Wolverine is recruited by Xavier and Magneto to aid them in the Sentinel threat.
-2016, future sequences of Days of Future Past (2014).

Timeline B (the bold represents the changes)

-4000 B.C., a teenage En Sabah Nur builds the pyramids.
-3980 B.C., En Sabah Nur, now an adult, bonds with the Apocalypse entity but is buried underground in a comatose state.
-1829, Victor Logan is born in Canada.
-1832, James Howlett/Logan is born in Canada.
-1845, Victor and James flee Canada to America.
-1861, The Logan Bros. fight in the American Civil War
-1918, The Logan Bros. fight in WWI
-1931, Erik Lehnsherr is born.
-1933, Charles Xavier is born.
-1933, Raven Darkholme is born.
-1944, The Logan Bros. fight in WWII; Erik Lehnsherr is placed in a Nazi concentration camp where he meets Sebastian Shaw; Charles Xavier's family adopts Raven Darkholme.
-1945, Wolverine is captured by the Japanese. Survives bombing of Nagasaki.
-1962, events of X-Men: First Class.
-1963, Magneto is arrested for the assassination of JFK.
-1965, Wolverine and Sabretooth fight in the Vietnam War.
-1973, the events of Days of Future Past (2014).
-1983, the events of X-Men: Apocalypse (2016).
-2016, the events of Deadpool (2016); the ending of Days of Future Past.
-2017, the events of Legion (2017).
-2024, the events of Logan (2017).

So basically, in Timeline B, Wolverine never goes back to Vietnam but still meets Stryker - who forces the adamantium bonding process on him. The man was destined to become Weapon X.

And yeah, if you ignore Moira, Trask, Angel & Psylocke's roles in X3, the continuity isn't that big of a problem.

There's just so many small continuity problems that add up. Things like Charles's saying he met Erik when he was 17, or Erik helping him build cerebro or Emma Frost showing up in Origins, yet being older in the 1960s FC, or Prof X saying that Cyclops, Jean, Storm were among his first students when they absolutely weren't. None of that is a big deal to me though, I only care about the quality of the movie I'm watching, and it makes sense with all the different directors and regime changing at Fox that this franchise is as coherent as it is.

Oh how long I've waited for this.

Thank you, God and thank you DEADPOOL for proving to Hollywood that an R-rating won't prevent you from making money.

I'm absolutely hype for this movie. Jackman deserves to go out with a bang.

The entirety of Captain America: Civil War is a Care Bears movie compared to that one scene.

There's more WAR in those 10 seconds than in the 147 minutes of Civil "War".

Agreed. X2, FC and DOFP was far more brutal than every McU film combined. Can't compare the two at all. Only Cap throwing the soldier in the propeller in TFA can match the good X films in terms of brutality.

 

[Victοr]

Spoiler

Much mysterious.

Such intrigue.

Oh my.

Spoiler

Spoiler

I am intrigued, truth be told, but they should skip the artsy BTS pics and show something substancial.

 

[SNIKT1950]

Boyd Holbrook (Narcos) is Donald Pierce

He'll make for a worthy adversary. Though I still wish Schreiber had been brought back as Sabretooth. Oh well.

 

[EVILFACE]

A cyborg? I expect adamantium claws to make short work of him Ghost Rider movie style......in seconds.

 

[SNIKT1950]

A cyborg? I expect adamantium claws to make short work of him Ghost Rider movie style......in seconds.

Perhaps this movie version of the Reavers is made with Adamantium...