LOST discussion - thar be spoilers ahead!

[Memnoch]

These writers aren't stupid enough to do a rest button "happily ever after" type of thing. I can see certain decisions changing, most notably Jack calling the ship and Locke choosing not to shoot at the end of season 3, but no great "the crash never happened" type of thing.

Would make for an interesting last season if certain survivors are given the option to jump ala Desmond and change certain actions.

 

[Entropy]

Would make for an interesting last season if certain survivors are given the option to jump ala Desmond and change certain actions.

That would be interesting, but as Desmond learned, and the writers have said many times, you can't change fate. These characters have been on a fatalistic journey, they MUST do what they are going to do. If I'm right that the series will end with the "death" of the island and it's magic, why were the 815ers brought to the island? What ultimately is their, and at their center, Locke's purpose? To finally bring about the island's death?

Jack's arc as the reluctant leader has been fulfilled, now he must finish his arc and move from man of science to man of faith, finally accepting and believing in miracles.

 

[barryo]

that was a more or less thinking out loud..........& like i said i want it in a way........... but with the events that have unfolded after 4 seasons and with 2 more that would cheapen it a bit...........unless our go to guys/girls had to go thru 3 more gates of hell and sacrifice without knowing they were actually going to reset. all in all at the season finale i want the core characters that we've grown closer to ..to come out ahead. even with their flaws i want our survivors to win. at this point it would be hard to swing the pendulum back the other way on who we think is bad and good with some exceptions. it will take a a self sacrifice for ben to ever convince me he's good and very dire intentional wrong by our core group (with the exception of Locke........he may be the devil??? ) to make me turn against them.

 

[Memnoch]

But see I think one of the themes in the show is that though you may do the right thing, you won't always come out ahead.

 

[barryo]

But see I think one of the themes in the show is that though you may do the right thing, you won't always come out ahead.

no doubt..............but as much as one can get into a story and embrace these characters..... as millions have, we want our team to win...........we want the drama, the strife, the trials by fire, the sacrifice, the random polar bear.... .but in the end we want these people that we are rooting for to be victorious. we want to feel like that everything they have been thru was not for naught.........that they learned something, they taught something, they rolled with the punches and they forged ahead changed but better people because of it. ..........i am thinking wayyyyyy to deep into this tonight......

 

[Entropy]

it will take a a self sacrifice for ben to ever convince me he's good and very dire intentional wrong by our core group (with the exception of Locke........he may be the devil??? ) to make me turn against them.

I think you saw Ben's sacrifice in the finale. My heart really went out to the guy in those scenes. I think time will illuminate Ben as a more sympathetic character. The only thing better than writing a really strong, manipulative, dastardly character like Ben is then making the audience feel empathy and sadness for them later on.

Like real life people, I do not view these characters as "good" or "bad" people. Only Widmore and his goons have remained truly "bad" people. And like real life I don't think we'll get a stereotypical "happy ending". Some characters will end up in good places, others won't. There will be happiness and satisfaction for many I believe, but a tragic, bittersweet feeling of loss for others. If it does go this way it will stay true to the complex and mature storytelling the show does so well.

Personally, I'm not rooting for anyone to "win" so much as for them to experience transformation and illumination.

 

[barryo]

Personally, I'm not rooting for anyone to "win" so much as for them to experience transformation and illumination.

thats kind of what i was trying to say here

"we want to feel like that everything they have been thru was not for naught.........that they learned something, they taught something, they rolled with the punches and they forged ahead changed but better people because of it. ....."

 

[tomandshell]

How about this--Ben is a teenager on the island, along with Annie, his true love. He gets Annie pregnant. The Dharma people know that pregnancies are fatal on the island, but unlike Ben (years later when he is in control of the Others) they are willing to let women leave the island rather than die after a few months. So the Dharma people force Annie to leave the island but she doesn't return, separating teenage Ben from Annie forever and giving him a grudge against Dharma that he will carry with him until the day that he kills them all in the purge--and we see him with the doll Annie gave him, showing that his actions could be retribution for Dharma forcing them apart. (Even more far out is the idea that women used to be able to have kids on the island, but after Ben had his child taken from him the Island responded to his loss somehow--it triggered something and that's when the problems started, stemming from a combination of his bitterness and his connection with the Island.)

At any rate, Ben never got to be a father and so years later he makes up for it by abducting Alex and raising her as his own, but remains paranoid about her getting pregnant because that would cause her to be taken away from him, just like Annie. Meanwhile, back on the mainland Annie gave birth to their daughter, who is raised to be a scientist (when her family settle in England to continue working for Widmore) but wonders where she really came from and maybe learns at some point of her family's prior involvement in the Dharma initiative, which causes her to do some research (including finding Dharma polar bear remains in Tunisia) and ultimately find a way back to the island to discover more about her roots--possibly even with the knowledge of her relationship with Ben, the man Widmore sent her to find. It would be interesting for Ben to lose his adopted (kidnapped) daughter only for him to leave the island just when his biological daughter Charlotte arrives looking for him.

 

[OK SITHLORD]

How about this -Is Jin really dead and is Jacks dad Jacob.? WHY WOULD THEY KILL OFF LOCKE? He is the best character ‘IMO’. It makes no sense to me.

 

[tomandshell]

I don't see how Jin could be alive--the helicopter was headed straight from the exploded freighter to the island and it vanished before they could get there. There's no way that Jin could have swam faster than the helicopter and arrived on shore before the island moved. Since Daniel's raft wasn't seen by either the helicopter or Penny's boat, I assume that he did get to shore (and plausibly, if he turned around as soon as he saw the explosion). And Jack's father said that he wasn't Jacob, but is rather someone who could speak on his behalf.

 

[OK SITHLORD]

I don't see how Jin could be alive--the helicopter was headed straight from the exploded freighter to the island and it vanished before they could get there. There's no way that Jin could have swam faster than the helicopter and arrived on shore before the island moved. Since Daniel's raft wasn't seen by either the helicopter or Penny's boat, I assume that he did get to shore (and plausibly, if he turned around as soon as he saw the explosion). And Jack's father said that he wasn't Jacob, but is rather someone who could speak on his behalf.

Jin can't be dead,that is what they want us to think,If the baby (ARRON) could live through the crash, witch doubt, Jin could have put on a life preserver and got off the boat. right? WHATS YOUR TAKE ON LOCKE THOUGH?

 

[Entropy]

Not sure how they'll do it but I'm fairly sure Jin is alive. I just can't see them writing the character off the show like that, especially when they set up his "death" with Sun's flashforward at his grave. Whereas Michael is definitely DEAD.

What would fit better for the format of this show is First tell us Jin is dead in the flashforward, then is audience is waiting for it to happen and see if it was true, then show the explosion making us and Sun think "there's no way he could have survived", then a few episodes into next season show Jin again, leave us wondering for an episode or so "how did he?" then reveal his miraculous survival. It would be a nice parallel with the people on the island mistakenly thinking all the boat people are dead, just as Sun mistakenly thinks Jin is dead. But if Jin did somehow make it back to the island would he then tell the people that the 6 + Desmond & Frank didn't die in the explosion?

Locke will be back next season in the island story, him bonding with the Others and finding out more of his destiny from Richard, we may also see him in some wacky Weekend at Bernie's/Little Miss Sunshine style hijinks in the off island storyline. Eventually, end of season 5 presumably, the "bad things that happened on the island" storyline will play out with Locke's death, prolly culminating with the return of Locke's body to the island in the other storyline. Terry O'Quinn will of course return to the show for the final season. How they will do this will be interesting. The three possibilities it seems to me are 1) Locke's dead body reanimates somehow. This would seem more likely if in fact the 'Richard Alpert is immortal' and 'Christian Shepard is still alive' theories turn out to be true. 2) Like the #15 rabbit, Locke has a double from another time... Jacob? This way Locke could be both dead and alive at the same time, allowing Terry O'Quinn to continue as a regular for the last season. 3) The events that lead to Locke's death are somehow changed via time travel, so Locke never dies and some, if not all, of the Oceanic 6 story never happens.



And Christian Shepard isn't Jacob. The first time we see Christian in the cabin we also see another man, Jacob, with him, although we only see Jacob's eye. The second time we see Christian in the cabin he says "I am not Jacob". It must be an odd challenge writing for this show, leaving subtle hints and clues for some viewers to pick up on while also clearly spelling things out about who and what is going on so that other viewers can keep track of the story.

 

[OK SITHLORD]

Not sure how they'll do it but I'm fairly sure Jin is alive. I just can't see them writing the character off the show like that, especially when they set up his "death" with Sun's flashforward at his grave. Whereas Michael is definitely DEAD.

What would fit better for the format of this show is First tell us Jin is dead in the flashforward, then is audience is waiting for it to happen and see if it was true, then show the explosion making us and Sun think "there's no way he could have survived", then a few episodes into next season show Jin again, leave us wondering for an episode or so "how did he?" then reveal his miraculous survival. It would be a nice parallel with the people on the island mistakenly thinking all the boat people are dead, just as Sun mistakenly thinks Jin is dead. But if Jin did somehow make it back to the island would he then tell the people that the 6 + Desmond & Frank didn't die in the explosion?

Locke will be back next season in the island story, him bonding with the Others and finding out more of his destiny from Richard, we may also see him in some wacky Weekend at Bernie's/Little Miss Sunshine style hijinks in the off island storyline. Eventually, end of season 5 presumably, the "bad things that happened on the island" storyline will play out with Locke's death, prolly culminating with the return of Locke's body to the island in the other storyline. Terry O'Quinn will of course return to the show for the final season. How they will do this will be interesting. The three possibilities it seems to me are 1) Locke's dead body reanimates somehow. This would seem more likely if in fact the 'Richard Alpert is immortal' and 'Christian Shepard is still alive' theories turn out to be true. 2) Like the #15 rabbit, Locke has a double from another time... Jacob? This way Locke could be both dead and alive at the same time, allowing Terry O'Quinn to continue as a regular for the last season. 3) The events that lead to Locke's death are somehow changed via time travel, so Locke never dies and some, if not all, of the Oceanic 6 story never happens.



And Christian Shepard isn't Jacob. The first time we see Christian in the cabin we also see another man, Jacob, with him, although we only see Jacob's eye. The second time we see Christian in the cabin he says "I am not Jacob". It must be an odd challenge writing for this show, leaving subtle hints and clues for some viewers to pick up on while also clearly spelling things out about who and what is going on so that other viewers can keep track of the story.

Wow!! That was the most insane theory to date! BUUUUUUUUT IT MAKES PERFECT SENCE WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT IT . I think i like it !! How do you know when the last season is?

 

[Entropy]

They announced it awhile ago. 2 more seasons left. Lost concludes in 2010.

 

[Darth Waller]

It must be an odd challenge writing for this show, leaving subtle hints and clues for some viewers to pick up on while also clearly spelling things out about who and what is going on so that other viewers can keep track of the story.

I still think they're making this stuff up as they go. Or their writers are a bunch of manatees.

 

[Agent0028]

(Even more far out is the idea that women used to be able to have kids on the island, but after Ben had his child taken from him the Island responded to his loss somehow--it triggered something and that's when the problems started, stemming from a combination of his bitterness and his connection with the Island.)

I like this theory alot. I've given up one having theories for this show, it's just too far over my head. I do good to remember what happened on previous episodes (I do good to remember what I ate for dinner too) so tying up all the strings is way too much for me. I love hearing everyone else's theories though. It also helps me remember what has happened in previous episodes and seasons.

 

[Entropy]

I still think they're making this stuff up as they go. Or their writers are a bunch of manatees.

They're still making it up in the sense the scripts are still being written, but the whole endgame and major plot reveals have already been determined. And determined quite some time ago I would wager. That's one of the great strengths of this show, they are writing towards something and don't tend to write themselves into corners. They don't just throw in mysteries like time travel, polar bears in deserts, Adam and Eve skeletons and visions of John Locke with white & black eyes without knowing what the payoff for those will eventually be.

Sure I know you were making a funny, but any comparison between the writing on Lost and the off the cuff dreck of Family Guy is ludicrous.

 

[Entropy]

I made this for a Lost finale party.

Now we know what the island's secret is... marble fudge.

 

[Giant Chicken]

I made this for a Lost finale party.

Now we know what the island's secret is... marble fudge.

Awesome Cake!

 

[-Super Hans-]

Well lost has just finished in the u.k and i am slightly disappointed no big surprises in there just wrapping up loose ends really apart from locke being in the coffin. Question is were does it go from here ??????? locke said bad things happened after jack left but i cant imagine what they could be. No enimies on the island so maybe well see others vs survivors round 2 ..................................