Media Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain & Ground Zeroes

[GasparZizou]

better than Skrillex.

https://www.ign.com/articles/2014/03/25/whats-wrong-with-metal-gear-solid-5-ground-zeroes-ending

It's funny that she asks us not to take this article a feminist propaganda, yet, that's exactly what it is, if everything happened the same way, with the only difference that it was Chico the one who got blown up, this would not be nearly the issue it is, period.

It's just typical, they can't bear to see any female character suffering, they all have to be strong and flawless, the moment there is a single female character treated in an undignifying manner, they just can't deal with it, doesn't matter if it really serves a purpose to the story, not even as a plot device.

If it moves the story forward or not, it's unknown yet, how could we possibly know?

 

[Solidus]

Im not a prude or anything. But what they did to Paz was over the top, not the rape, or the bomb. But the fact they did everything. One shock value thing is ok. But having her raped, raped by a kid, cutting her golden locks off, then removing her ovary's and putting a bomb up there as well as a stomach. We see her stomach ripped open while she is concious with her guts coming out AND then she is blown to bits. The whole thing seems like it was made by a 40 year old man who lives in his basement and has given up hopes of ever getting a woman therefor he hates them all.

The fact that they did more makes me care less

Good points there. And whatever remarkable literary claims that Kojima had tried to achieve by Paz's suffering and death, were immediately mitigated by the sense that I had no emotional investment in this character, whatsoever. She was hardly given any time in the series, and I wouldn't have minded seeing more of her in another game - instead of being horribly mutilated and killed off the way she was. It was a cheap trick to "progress" the story as far as I'm concerned.

Also, from what we can gather in the tapes, Skull Face is another tragic and broken character. I'm almost certain that he's going to get a write-off for his actions in MGS V in the same way that the B&B members did in MGS 4.

 

[Henry Morgan*]

Kiva, if you think thats too much I assume you never watched any Saw movie those " horror " movies are gross

It's funny that she asks us not to take this article a feminist propaganda, yet, that's exactly what it is, if everything happened the same way, with the only difference that it was Chico the one who got blown up, this would not be nearly the issue it is, period.

It's just typical, they can't bear to see any female character suffering, they all have to be strong and flawless, the moment there is a single female character treated in an undignifying manner, they just can't deal with it, doesn't matter if it really serves a purpose to the story, not even as a plot device.

Its like when people complain about Barbie as a stereotype for women, what about He-man ?

She really does? Personally, I never cared too much about Paz, because she was hardly given any character development in Peace Walker. Well, aside from the last 10 minutes in ZEKE, and that awful "I am Pacifica Ocean!!" one-liner .

"I'm the Pacific Ocean!"

Her bomb "down there" was distasteful, but I'm certainly not mourning her death in the series. Goodbye... character I hardly ever knew. But, I do think it was a mistake to use her as a literary device for Big Boss's plans of revenge when he never and Miller never cared much about her, either.

Well she was important in the end, I can deal with that I guess..

'An unlikeable character became likeable because of her tapes and then she dies ' well that what some people seem to think... I never liked her and I will never care about her, I'm kind of glad she is gone I can see why some people might not like it but I'm just used to see guts and blood

 

[Cap'n Cook]

Paz' op was gratuitous to the extreme. Even down to the 'snip snip' gesture the medic makes with his scissors.

Over the top and wrong.

 

[Solidus]

better than Skrillex.



It's funny that she asks us not to take this article a feminist propaganda, yet, that's exactly what it is, if everything happened the same way, with the only difference that it was Chico the one who got blown up, this would not be nearly the issue it is, period.

It's just typical, they can't bear to see any female character suffering, they all have to be strong and flawless, the moment there is a single female character treated in an undignifying manner, they just can't deal with it, doesn't matter if it really serves a purpose to the story, not even as a plot device.

If it moves the story forward or not, it's unknown yet, how could we possibly know?

You know, I can appreciate that Kojima finally wants to turn Big Boss into an "evil", and it's refreshing to finally hear him use that word in the series . But, why did Paz have to serve as a catalyst for that? It's as if the destruction of Mother Base, and the death of Big Boss' army overnight wasn't enough to set him off - so, instead, we were given this weird shock thing with a female character - that for all intents and purposes, should have been inconsequential compared to the events that I just mentioned.

 

[krec9]

View attachment 102171

Guess I wasn't the only one bothered by the dialogue and delivery in this game.

 

[GasparZizou]

Also, from what we can gather in the tapes, Skull Face is another tragic and broken character. I'm almost certain that he's going to get a write-off for his actions in MGS V in the same way that the B&B members did in MGS 4.

But almost every single villain in the franchise is a tragic figure, ever since MGS1, and most of them get redeemed when they die.

 

[Solidus]

But almost every single villain in the franchise is a tragic figure, ever since MGS1.

Well, not Volgin .

 

[GasparZizou]

You know, I can appreciate that Kojima finally wants to turn Big Boss into an "evil", and it's refreshing to finally hear him use that word in the series . But, why did Paz have to serve as a catalyst for that? It's as if the destruction of Mother Base, and the death of Big Boss' army overnight wasn't enough to set him off - so, instead, we were given this weird shock thing with a female character - that for all intents and purposes, should have been inconsequential compared to the events that I just mentioned.

As far as I'm concerned Paz will not be the catalyst of that, there's no emotional connection between her and BB, Mother base destruction is where's at.

Paz's death was collateral damage, what they did to her was not for shock value, it was practicality on behalf of the villain, pure and simple, you have a bad guy who enjoys the worst kinds of torture and he happens to inflict that on 2 characters here, Chico and Paz, that's one thing, the bombs are a completely different subject, he wanted to kill BB with Paz's bombs, anyone would think if they discovered the bomb they would try to remove it, hence why they made it big with a bright blinking light, then you put in a safe mechanism, another bomb, this time hidden, it's just logic.

People are mistaking "shock value" for the way things would naturally happen.

 

[Solidus]

As far as I'm concerned Paz will not be the catalyst of that, there's no emotional connection between her and BB, Mother base destruction is where's at.

Paz's death was collateral damage, what they did to her was not for shock value, it was practicality on behalf of the villain, pure and simple, you have a bad guy who enjoys the worst kinds of torture and he happens to inflict that on 2 characters here, Chico and Paz, that's one thing, the bombs are a completely different subject, he wanted to kill BB with Paz's bombs, anyone would think if they discovered the bomb they would try to removed, hence why they made it big with a bright blinking light, hence you put in a safe mechanism, another bomb, it's just logic.

People are mistaking "shock value" for the way things would naturally happen.

If Paz was simply "collateral damage", then why did she need so much air time to overshadow the bigger picture of Mother Base's destruction and the utter decimation of Big Boss' army? . I spent weeks building up Mother Base into a giant fortress in Peace Walker, and if Kojima really wanted the players to feel something, I think he could have tied in the save files from PW in some way, and brought it home to show us that all of our hard work was for nothing. In other words, have us experience Big Boss's pain for ourselves and his need for revenge.

And to what I mentioned before, Skull Face will most likely be another tragic character that has to be redeemed in classical Kojima storytelling. So, it makes all of the effort with torturing Paz a bit vain, if you ask me - since Skull Face may not truly be an "evil" guy at the end.

 

[GasparZizou]

If Paz was simply "collateral damage", then why did she need so much air time to overshadow the bigger picture of Mother Base's destruction and the utter decimation of Big Boss' army? . I spent weeks building up Mother Base into a giant fortress in Peace Walker, and if Kojima really wanted the players to feel something, I think he could have tied in the save files from PW in some way, and brought it home to show us that all of our hard work was for nothing. In other words, have us experience Big Boss's pain for ourselves and his need for revenge.

If Kojima wanted players to be more concerned with Mother Base (like I was) than with Paz , he wouldn't have shown MB's destruction on every trailer.

She didn't overshadow Mother Base in the slightest, Paz's death was kind of shocking yes, but since I 1st saw the 1st trailer where they showed Mother Based being destroyed, that was a whole lot more emotional for me, if the trailers didn't gave everything away, I would have still been waaaay more shocked by the destruction of MB than by Paz's death.

If anyone was more shocked by Paz than for MB it was because
A) They didn't play PW and didn't spend hours building that MB.
B) They already knew by the trailers MB was going down and didn't know Paz was going to die, which is what happened to everyone.

Because I doubt that Paz will have any major effect in BB's character development, if anything, she'll have an effect on Chico.

 

[Henry Morgan*]

Chico shouldn't appear ever again imho, too many years have passed, if he didn't die he must be in his country with his sister. I'd juts like to know what the hell was Kaz up to.

Maybe he was tortured during all those years .. man thats tragic, I care about Kaz.. damn fiddles

 

[GasparZizou]

Its like when people complain about Barbie as a stereotype for women, what about He-man ?

exactly, Have you seen any of Anita Sarkessian's videos? Uuuuuuuugh.

 

[Henry Morgan*]

exactly, Have you seen any of Anita Sarkessian's videos? Uuuuuuuugh.

ugh.. that crazy lady... she is the biggest attetion who re

 

[Dylan]

Jesus Christ this thread is despicable.

 

[GasparZizou]

>"Ugh this thread"
>comes back

 

[Henry Morgan*]

immediately thought of this

 

[Dylan]

>"Ugh this thread"
>comes back

Yeah I am such an idiot to assume that there could possibly be decent conversation taking place in here. My bad.

 

[Dylan]

Really because I thought this was a conversation about the unanimous hate of any woman whos opinion is different than yours and is there by a Crazy feminist.

 

[Solidus]

If Kojima wanted players to be more concerned with Mother Base (like I was) than with Paz , he wouldn't have shown MB's destruction on every trailer.

She didn't overshadow Mother Base in the slightest, Paz's death was kind of shocking yes, but since I 1st saw the 1st trailer where they showed Mother Based being destroyed, that was a whole lot more emotional for me, if the trailers didn't gave everything away, I would have still been waaaay more shocked by the destruction of MB than by Paz's death.

If anyone was more shocked by Paz than for MB it was because
A) They didn't play PW and didn't spend hours building that MB.
B) They already knew by the trailers MB was going down and didn't know Paz was going to die, which is what happened to everyone.

Because I doubt that Paz will have any major effect in BB's character development, if anything, she'll have an effect on Chico.

Mother Base was practically an afterthought in this game for the very reason that we knew what to expect from the trailers, and even more so that it was blatantly insulting to see only a short segment of it at the end. As for Paz, the entire game was focused on her being rescued, and we were given a front-seat to the sick show of torture and mutilation through Chico's tapes. Its' true, maybe the events with Paz won't have any consequence on Big Boss - I'll give you that. But, to me, her death and suffering to the extents that she went through them, serve as no purpose at all, except for Kojima to provide unnecessary "shock value" in his auteur vision to progress the gaming world, in a dark-side that no other developer has ever considered. And like I mentioned before, Skull Face is most likely a tragic character in need of redemption from the MGS "god", making Paz's suffering all the more unnecessary.

And I couldn't give a **** about Chico. **** him.