Media Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain & Ground Zeroes

[GasparZizou]

https://gamingbolt.com/metal-gear-s...c-snake-will-suffer-from-psychological-trauma

March 12, 2015 is the rumored release date.

https://gamingbolt.com/metal-gear-s...c-snake-will-suffer-from-psychological-trauma

Loooong time to wait T.T i cri

 

[Cap'n Cook]

1 day after my birthday. I'll take that.

 

[Furyan]

Loooong time to wait T.T i cri

Id like to be cryo frozen until next March.

 

[Solidus]

Going back to the article that I posted earlier yesterday: I don't really like how the mechanics in GZ breaks away from the tradition of gameplay compared to the other games in the series. The previous MGS games were built upon slight iterations of the gameplay elements and mechanics with each successive release - starting back from the original Metal Gears 1 and 2 from the 80s - which even included the trademark knocking feature and quick select buttons . But, from what the KojiPro guy said in the article, it seems like they were so absorbed into comparing MGS to other stealth franchises, that they decided to re-imagine MGS into "realistic" experience. But, as a consequence of doing so, they practically threw out 25 years of tradition in the garbage, and created something that feels totally different - instead of improving on an already available gameplay concept from MG 1 and 2 all the way up to Peace Walker.

I really don't agree with this philosophy in the sense that this newly added "realism", takes away the natural sense of control from the player's hands. You're no longer feel like it's a simple cat-and-mouse stealth game, where you have one-up on the AI and you're free just to jump straight into the game and do whatever you want. But, because all of the enemies now have eagle-eye vision, they can spot you from a mile away, and as a fail-safe, you're forced to rely on the reflex mode and tagging system, to perfect your bullet shots (which seem to limited by a "Magnus Effect" during normal gameplay). And I'll be honest, I tried turning off reflex mode and the tagging system and I got my *** handed to me. I guess KojiPro knew that their game was too hard, so they kept these features on by default.

Now, it's not that I mind the the tagging and reflex bologna, and like I said before, GZ is the most fun I've ever had with a Sandbox game. However, it's not the features that I'm looking for in a stealth game, and let alone, in a MGS game... in that, it doesn't really seem like a traditional MGS to me.

 

[GasparZizou]

I don't see how the gameplay breaks the tradition in the slightest, GZ is an upgrade of MGS4 and PW which on their right are upgrades of MGS3 and so on, the important features are still there, they removed a very few shallow features that will probably come back...

Since MGS1 we have proning, still there.

Since MGS1 we have different floors that will make a different sound alerting the guards, still there.

Since mgs1we have 1st person view and since Mgs2 we can shoot in 1st person, still there.

I've thought of a loooot more features but I'm on my phone and I'm to lazy to type all, but I'm sure you can also think of them, each WAY more important than the 2 or 3 superficial features removed, define MGS better and haven't seen them in other stealth games.

Those handful of features that were removed do not represent the 25 years of MGS history in the slightest.

I also don't see how GZ takes away control from the player, I've never felt more in control in any MGS game, the AI is magnificent, I don't understand how that can arise complaints.

I will also never complain about difficulty, my goal is to play without handicaps, I have played without reflex several times and only passed one mission, got a D rank and got killed a few times but it felt way more rewarding than the S ranks I've received, and I feel it's not impossible do S rank a mission if you put some time into getting better.

Saying that in any way shape or form this doesn't feel like an MGS game anymore is and will always be an unjustified exaggeration triggered by the few missing shallow features to me.

GZ is still MGS from head to toes, they just expanded the way you can apply those mechanics.

You'll not be a different person because you trimmed your nails.

I am sorry Solidus hermano, but I strongly disagree with you here, please don't stop being my good friend



Sent from my iPod touch using Tapatalk

 

[Solidus]

There's just too much about this game that's changed for me to truly accept it as MGS, and I know that Ryan feels a similar way about it, too .

As an analogy, it would be like if your girlfriend went for a trip to South Korea, but came back with a **** job, a nose job, silicone buttz, and a Michael Jackson skin bleach. She may still be your girlfriend (on the inside) despite all of the plastic. But, will she still be the same person you knew? That's sort of how I feel about MGS V. The changes were too abrupt and too liberally borrowed from other stealth games, in that they don't seem like improvements to me, and the "spirit of MGS" is just gone from the gameplay.

And by the way, you're dead to me, Gasp. F you

 

[Jameson Rook]

I find the some parts of gameplay (especially the compensated shooting) to be highly irritating and unnecessary. I remember my earlier playtroughs, I got spotted so I ran aimlessly towards a door and to my dismay, there were barely any interactive doors and I foolishly kept tapping the triangle button in front the doors to get them opened. I also saw a dumpster but couldn't get inside or stash bodies in them, something you're able to do in the Hitman games. I also remembered when I was hiding from an active sweep, I was hanging on a cliff but I constantly got up and re-enter hanging mode in force of habit because I was under the presumption that Snake's arms would get tired like in the old games, which isn't the case now.


Simply put, at the very least they should have clarified the rules of this particular world, because so much has changed that even 12 hours and several S-ranked missions later, I'm not sure if the gameplay would be truly something I'd get behind by.

There's just too much about this game that's changed for me to truly accept it as MGS, and I know that Ryan feels a similar way about it, too .

As an analogy, it would be like if your girlfriend went for a trip to South Korea, but came back with a **** job, a nose job, silicone buttz, and a Michael Jackson skin bleach. She may still be your girlfriend (on the inside) despite all of the plastic. But, will she still be the same person you knew? That's sort of how I feel about MGS V. The changes were too abrupt and too liberally borrowed from other stealth games, in that they don't seem like improvements to me, and the "spirit of MGS" is just gone from the gameplay.

And by the way, you're dead to me, Gasp. F you

She called me as asked what shoes you would like:

 

[Solidus]

I find the some parts of gameplay (especially the compensated shooting) to be highly irritating and unnecessary. I remember my earlier playtroughs, I got spotted so I ran aimlessly towards a door and to my dismay, there were barely any interactive doors and I foolishly kept tapping the triangle button in front the doors to get them opened. I also saw a dumpster but couldn't get inside or stash bodies in them, something you're able to do in the Hitman games. I also remembered when I was hiding from an active sweep, I was hanging on a cliff but I constantly got up and re-enter hanging mode in force of habit because I was under the presumption that Snake's arms would get tired like in the old games, which isn't the case now.


Simply put, at the very least they should have clarified the rules of this particular world, because so much has changed that even 12 hours and several S-ranked missions later, I'm not sure if the gameplay would be truly something I'd get behind by.

My experience was fairly consistent with yours, and I found it odd that Big Boss didn't lose stamina in his arms, or that he couldn't even sneeze like in MGS 2 to 4 (in addition to the magic air freshener that instantly heals his body). I've S-ranked one mission (the with "god's" cameo at the end), and don't feel like doing the others .

As for the dumpster, if I recall correctly, you could hide bodies inside dumpsters in MGS 4 - something else that was unnecessarily removed for GZ.

She called me as asked what shoes you would like:

Those are just hideous. I highly doubt that Kojima would ever be caught in public wearing those

 

[ronri]

I also don't see how GZ takes away control from the player, I've never felt more in control in any MGS game, the AI is magnificent, I don't understand how that can arise complaints.

.....

Saying that in any way shape or form this doesn't feel like an MGS game anymore is and will always be an unjustified exaggeration triggered by the few missing shallow features to me.

GZ is still MGS from head to toes, they just expanded the way you can apply those mechanics.

I agree with these statements in particular. I've been playing PW literally just before I started playing GZ, and GZ felt like a streamlined version of PW for me more than anything else. I keep referring to PW because for me, just like how PW controls evolved from MGS4 controls, GZ controls evolved from PW controls (real-time inventory, aiming system, real-time codec calls, more direct and heavy-handed CQC etc.) GZ is definitely far removed from MGS1-MGS2, but I'd argue even MGS4 changed some of the controls enough that it initially irked me during my experience in the first couple of levels (honestly, I remember being irked by it even more so than how I feel towards GZ right now).

Now folks, don't feel surprised by this, but I honestly haven't used the wall-knock as far back as MGS2. Yeah it's true, and surprising as it may seem, it's actually possible to play MGS without the wall-knock. And it's not like I'm admitting that I'm "playing it wrong", it just felt strange for me to see so many people fussing over its disappearance in GZ. Over the past MGS games after MGS2, I've actually become more reliant on other distraction methods such as food/magazine-throwing (especially in MGS3) as I've found them to be more effective.

Anyway, who knows, perhaps it's to do with people's play style as well? Either way for me, GZ doesn't feel like a departure from we've come to know of MGS, but more like a logical step in the evolution of its controls straight from the most recent one being PW.

 

[Jameson Rook]

My experience was fairly consistent with yours, and I found it odd that Big Boss didn't lose stamina in his arms, or that he couldn't even sneeze like in MGS 2 to 4 (in addition to the magic air freshener that instantly heals his body). I've S-ranked one mission (the with "god's" cameo at the end), and don't feel like doing the others .

As for the dumpster, if I recall correctly, you could hide bodies inside dumpsters in MGS 4 - something else that was unnecessarily removed for GZ.



Those are just hideous. I highly doubt that Kojima would ever be caught in public wearing those

It's funny because in every new iteration of GTA, they introduced plenty of new stuff yet nothing feels completely alien. You know the doors which can't be opened. GZ gave me the false impression that I could break into every door and hide inside.

Snake couldn't catch a cold in GZ, I totally forgot about that! While everybody knows Snake and Raiden could sneeze in the tanker and Arsenal Gear, I also recalled that even in MGS3, you could catch a cold by staying in the swamp or rain too long.

Also, I know it's nitpicking at this point but could we at least get his suit to dirty up from all the rolling and stuff? It looked wonderful and added a sense of realism even in the old PS2 Tomb Raider games. Maybe such a feature was in the current gen versions. Could anybody confirm this?

 

[Jameson Rook]

You too could own a real life iDroid with some plutonium and 1.21 gigawatts of power!

 

[Henry Morgan*]

I barely used wall knock and I didn't even use the box in some MGS games... Yeah that's right the only thing I always use in every MGS games are the gun clips, I love those things. This game gives you A LOT of freedom, anything that happens is an oportunity to do something else I love it

Btw, less cutscenes in TPP https://www.gamespot.com/articles/m...avour-of-pure-game-storytelling/1100-6418805/

 

[Solidus]

It's funny because in every new iteration of GTA, they introduced plenty of new stuff yet nothing feels completely alien. You know the doors which can't be opened. GZ gave me the false impression that I could break into every door and hide inside.

Snake couldn't catch a cold in GZ, I totally forgot about that! While everybody knows Snake and Raiden could sneeze in the tanker and Arsenal Gear, I also recalled that even in MGS3, you could catch a cold by staying in the swamp or rain too long.

Also, I know it's nitpicking at this point but could we at least get his suit to dirty up from all the rolling and stuff? It looked wonderful and added a sense of realism even in the old PS2 Tomb Raider games. Maybe such a feature was in the current gen versions. Could anybody confirm this?

Arguments about the gameplay aside, it doesn't really seem like a logical (and welcomed) progression of the series to me, when Big Boss doesn't even have a stamina gauge and can't even suffer from environmental effects as he did in MGS 3 .

Interesting that you mentioned that about the clothes. I wonder if the Fox engine does more besides show pretty graphics on the surface.

 

[Solidus]

You too could own a real life iDroid with some plutonium and 1.21 gigawatts of power!

Realistic technology that you'd expect from a game with an 80s setting!

I barely used wall knock and I didn't even use the box in some MGS games... Yeah that's right the only thing I always use in every MGS games are the gun clips, I love those things. This game gives you A LOT of freedom, anything that happens is an oportunity to do something else I love it

Btw, less cutscenes in TPP https://www.gamespot.com/articles/m...avour-of-pure-game-storytelling/1100-6418805/

I think this Jordan Amaro guy is shaping up to be another Ryan Payton doucher, who sees everything "wrong" with MGS gameplay and wants to give it a more "Western feel".

 

[ronri]

Arguments about the gameplay aside, it doesn't really seem like a logical (and welcomed) progression of the series to me, when Big Boss doesn't even have a stamina gauge and can't even suffer from environmental effects as he did in MGS 3 .

I'd agree with the stamina gauge if it weren't for the fact that MGS4 and PW halfheartedly implemented them (or Psyche in this case). Most times I barely even noticed their impact, and the most notable one was how the sun heated up Snake in MGS4 (even then those segments felt so short that it only affected me in a few segments).

A bit related but not directly at you Solidus, while I certainly liked it at the time, I'm a bit indifferent from the lack of sneezing/catching a cold this time around in GZ. Yes, it was a fun feature that showed environmental awareness on the developers' part but seriously, it's ridiculous for a person to suddenly start sneezing after staying out in the rain for a mere 10 minutes let alone a hardened soldier like Big Boss. Perhaps if it happened after 30-50+ minutes worth of exposure to rain then yeah, it'd be cool for them to implement it again and I'd welcome such a feature than none at all, but the way MGS2 implemented it just felt a bit ridiculous for characters like Snake or Raiden. I've had friends in the past literally run and dance around in the rain for longer periods of time (willingly getting soaked and all from head to toe, don't ask) and none of them ever actually got sick because of it (at least not immediately sneezing or any obvious symptoms of feeling sick). I highly doubt that a hardened soldier like Big Boss would have less bodily resistance than a bunch of teenagers, especially after everything he's been through from MGS3 onwards.

Actually speaking of environmental effects, has anyone ever gotten hurt from falling off in GZ? I know BB has stronger resistance here, but I actually got hurt at one point when I dove down from the roof (literally gave me as much damage as a couple gunshots and I've been fairly cautious from trying it again).

 

[Henry Morgan*]

I absolutely agree with you Ronri even if he is exposed to cold and rain he still has the sneaking suit, should be ok for a few hours wearing that.

The system of this game is different to the rest but some old elements are still there, and more stuff will be in TPP

 

[Solidus]

I'd agree with the stamina gauge if it weren't for the fact that MGS4 and PW halfheartedly implemented them (or Psyche in this case). Most times I barely even noticed their impact, and the most notable one was how the sun heated up Snake in MGS4 (even then those segments felt so short that it only affected me in a few segments).

A bit related but not directly at you Solidus, while I certainly liked it at the time, I'm a bit indifferent from the lack of sneezing/catching a cold this time around in GZ. Yes, it was a fun feature that showed environmental awareness on the developers' part but seriously, it's ridiculous for a person to suddenly start sneezing after staying out in the rain for a mere 10 minutes let alone a hardened soldier like Big Boss. Perhaps if it happened after 30-50+ minutes worth of exposure to rain then yeah, it'd be cool for them to implement it again and I'd welcome such a feature than none at all, but the way MGS2 implemented it just felt a bit ridiculous for characters like Snake or Raiden. I've had friends in the past literally run and dance around in the rain for longer periods of time (willingly getting soaked and all from head to toe, don't ask) and none of them ever actually got sick because of it (at least not immediately sneezing or any obvious symptoms of feeling sick). I highly doubt that a hardened soldier like Big Boss would have less bodily resistance than a bunch of teenagers, especially after everything he's been through from MGS3 onwards.

Actually speaking of environmental effects, has anyone ever gotten hurt from falling off in GZ? I know BB has stronger resistance here, but I actually got hurt at one point when I dove down from the roof (literally gave me as much damage as a couple gunshots and I've been fairly cautious from trying it again).

Then, if you want to discuss "realism", Big Boss was prone to environmental effects in MGS 3, and at the start of GZ, he should be an older and less capable soldier than he once was. So, it doesn't make sense to exclude these features all the more, if consideration was taken to the timeline and canon of MGS - which, I guess, serves as the basis of what you're trying to say .

That said, the exclusion of these features seem more like a technical decision - as if KojiPro wanted to "refine" the controls and gameplay aesthetics of MGS GZ to create a similar experience to what you'd find in other third-person Sandbox and stealth games. Which alludes back to my point of how this game feels less of a MGS title and more of an amalgamation of other non-MGS games that I've already played - especially when trademark features from the previous titles are no where to be seen.

 

[Snake Plissken]

Then, if you want to discuss "realism", Big Boss was prone to environmental effects in MGS 3, and at the start of GZ, he should be an older and less capable soldier than he once was. So, it doesn't make sense to exclude these features all the more, if consideration was taken to the timeline and canon of MGS - which, I guess, serves as the basis of what you're trying to say .

That said, the exclusion of these features seem more like a technical decision - as if KojiPro wanted to "refine" the controls and gameplay aesthetics of MGS GZ to create a similar experience to what you'd find in other third-person Sandbox and stealth games. Which alludes back to my point of how this game feels less of a MGS title and more of an amalgamation of other non-MGS games that I've already played - especially when trademark features from the previous titles are no where to be seen.

Age seems to not matter for him, or Ocelot (He jumped like 30 feet in the air on top of RAY lulz). It seems to only effect Snake, and Solidus

 

[ronri]

Then, if you want to discuss "realism", Big Boss was prone to environmental effects in MGS 3, and at the start of GZ, he should be an older and less capable soldier than he once was. So, it doesn't make sense to exclude these features all the more, if consideration was taken to the timeline and canon of MGS - which, I guess, serves as the basis of what you're trying to say .

That said, the exclusion of these features seem more like a technical decision - as if KojiPro wanted to "refine" the controls and gameplay aesthetics of MGS GZ to create a similar experience to what you'd find in other third-person Sandbox and stealth games. Which alludes back to my point of how this game feels less of a MGS title and more of an amalgamation of other non-MGS games that I've already played - especially when trademark features from the previous titles are no where to be seen.

Except I was talking about the proposed necessity to add "realistic" features when these features are implemented unrealistically as a minor obstacle/hindrance, making for a less immersive experience which serves as a direct contradiction to the developers' intentions to re-create said realism.

Want to add trivial "realistic" environmental effects such as sneezing after a bit of exposure from the rain? Go all the way, don't just stop at a certain point and say "that's good enough" when all it adds is a minor hindrance to your overall performance within the game where you have to rush through a rainy segment just because you might end up sneezing 10 minutes after. I don't know if my memory is just hazy (so honestly, do correct me if I'm wrong), but MGS3 never bothered me as the environmental effects weren't as readily felt and was implemented in moderation that it was only through long periods of gaming that I actually noticed them (not to mention it's set in a jungle where environmental effects SHOULD be more apparent in comparison to say, a military facility like Camp Omega).

Even then, if we're going by the evolution of controls/game mechanics, using MGS3 as a basis is just unfair when you account for how MGS4 and PW essentially stripped a lot of those features as well. Logically speaking based on this mentality of maintaining "realism" in the following games, shouldn't we have had the medical "treatment" feature included again in PW since it's also a BB game? What about sun exposure from MGS4? Doesn't that mean that PW fails in expanding its predecessor's game mechanics in this regard and therefore, an overall downgrade? Again, I wasn't arguing about how they should keep a level of consistency in the "realism" and implementation of some of these features, rather I was talking about how some of the trivial features in past games are exactly just that, trivial in their implementation to the point that I'm not really missing them here.

It's like you said, it's not about making it as "realistic" as possible, it's about continuous re-inventions of the mechanics and control template for each new game. I'd have been happy if we stuck with MGS3 controls all this time (seriously, MGS4 irked me like hell when I first played it but hey I got used to it in good time), but then that defeats the point of innovation and making new games at all; not to mention if I want MGS3, then I'll just play MGS3. What I like about GZ is its shift in focus. I guess for me, instead of random environmental effects, what I'm very happy about with GZ is how we get a better A.I. system and level design that allows you to play the game much more organically (barring the jarring number of "locked" doors which I do feel is a huge hit against it) and approach missions in a less linear way; which is something Kojima has constantly blabbered about wanting to do ever since MGS4.

Mind you, I'm not trying to convince you to like GZ in its entirety or anything (some bits still needs work), rather I just think the claims that "this isn't MGS" seem a little much. Because from how I've been playing so far, GZ doesn't feel as far removed from how I felt when playing PW as much as you claim it to be.

 

[Snake Plissken]

Essays, essays everywhere.