Obamas tax plan

[Voorhees27]

Cool. Sorry I brought it up.

Cheers to you both.

 

[LChinoz]

I feel the love! And in a political thread!

 

[LordAzrael]

https://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=303952499910291

Like Father, Like Son

By INVESTOR'S BUSINESS DAILY | Posted Monday, August 18, 2008 4:20 PM PT

Election '08: Barack Obama's economic blueprint sounds like one his communist father tried to foist on Kenya 40 years ago, with massive taxes and succor shrouded as "investments."

As a Nairobi bureaucrat, Barack Hussein Obama Sr. advised the pro-Western Kenyan government there to "redistribute" income through higher taxes. He also demonized corporations and called for massive government "investment" in social programs.
Barack Obama Sr., who died in 1982 at age 46 in a Kenya car crash.


Writing in a 1965 scholarly paper, Obama's late father slammed the administration of then-President Jomo Kenyatta for moving the Third World country away from socialism toward capitalism. He chafed at the idea of relying on private investors — who earn "dividends" on their venture capital — to develop the country's fledgling economy.

"What is more important is to find means by which we can redistribute our economic gains to the benefit of all," said the senior Obama, a Harvard-educated economist. "This is the government's obligation." The "means" he had in mind were confiscatory taxes on a scale that redefines the term "progressive taxation."

"Theoretically," he wrote, "there is nothing that can stop the government from taxing 100% of income so long as the people get benefits from the government commensurate with their income which is taxed."

Therefore, he added, "I do not see why the government cannot tax those who have more and syphon some of these revenues into savings which can be utilized in investment for future development."

As Obama's father saw it, taxes couldn't be high enough, so long as the collective benefited. "Certainly there is no limit to taxation if the benefits derived from public services by society measure up to the cost in taxation which they have to pay," he said. "It is a fallacy to say that there is this limit, and it is a fallacy to rely mainly on individual free enterprise to get the savings."

His son is also pushing massive taxes and "investments" in social programs — at the expense of free enterprise. Sen. Obama wants to raise the top marginal income-tax rate to at least 39%, while increasing Social Security taxes on those with higher incomes by completely removing the payroll cap. That means many entrepreneurs would be paying 12.4% (6.2% on employer and 6.2% on employee) on Social Security payroll taxes alone, plus the 2.9% on Medicare taxes, for a total federal tax rate of 54%.

In addition, Obama wants to jack up the capital-gains tax rate and reinstate the death tax.

Echoing his father, he argues that the government should impose "tax laws that restore some balance to the distribution of the nation's wealth."

And likewise, he asserts that the nation's wealth ought to be rechanneled by government into "investments" in the economy and welfare programs that create "a new American social compact."

"We can only compete if our government makes the investments that give us a fighting chance" in the global economy, the Democrat presidential hopeful said in his 2006 book, "The Audacity of Hope." "And if we know that our families have some net beneath which they cannot fall."

"Training must be expanded," his father proposed as one of his government "investments." Likewise, Sen. Obama wants to "invest" billions more in federal jobs retraining.

His father's critique of Kenya's economic policy was published in the East Africa Journal under the title "Problems Facing Our Socialism." One discovers — after reading just a few pages into his eight-page tract, where he waxes quixotic about "communal ownership of major means of production" — that he wasn't criticizing the government for being too socialistic, but not socialistic enough.

Obama Sr. described his own economic plan, his counterproposal, as it were, as "scientific socialism — inter alia — communism." Yes, Obama's father was a communist who wanted to put socialist theory into action — by "force."

He trusted the collective over the individual, a theme he successfully instilled in his son, also Harvard-educated, with whom he visited once for a full month in Hawaii, even speaking to his prep school class. He kept up correspondence with his son through his college years.

(Media accounts portray Obama's father as being completely out of his life after leaving his mother and him at age 2. But Obama's first book, "Dreams From My Father," reveals that he remained an influential force in his life. Obama's first autobiography was devoted to "my father.")

Listen to what "the Old Man," as Obama and his siblings called him, wrote in proposing government-run farms: "If left to the individual, consolidation will take a long time to come. We have to look at priorities in terms of what is good for society, and on this basis we may find it necessary to force people to do things they would not do otherwise."

He explained that "the government should restrict the size of farms that can be owned by one individual throughout the country."

More evil than individuals, Obama's father believed, are heads of corporations. More evil still are the bankers and investors, who conspire to control the world through their evil capitalist system.

"One who has read Marx cannot fail to see that corporations are not only what Marx referred to as the advanced stage of capitalism," he wrote. "But Marx even called it finance capitalism by which a few would control the finances of so many, and through this, have not only economic power but political power as well."

It's clear from Sen. Obama's own writings and speeches that he too is no fan of business or our system of "chaotic and unforgiving capitalism," as he wrote in "Audacity." He's fond of bashing Wall Street "greed" and the post-Reagan rise of individual investing over government investing. He wants to roll back the "Ownership Society." He resents the profit motive and individuals "on the make."

"Rather than vilify the rich," he laments, "we hold them up as role models, and our mythology is steeped in stories of men on the make."

This is no small point. The man who wants to be the nation's CEO actually believes we're living in a feudal society where the rich plunder the poor. And he thinks they should not only be vilified but punished.

"The problems of poverty and racism, the uninsured and the unemployed are rooted in the desire among those at the top of the social ladder to maintain their wealth and status whatever the cost," he wrote. "Solving these problems will require changes in government policy."

That is, massive taxation, among other things (or "inter alia," as his "brilliant" father would say).

.......

However, the son who would lead the U.S. learned from his father's mistakes and keeps his "mouth shut." Obama learned that revealing his real beliefs can jeopardize his quest for the power needed to put his "redistribution" plans into action.

 

[Mesa]

damn, all other relevant threads have been closed. Wonder why?


Oh well, this may not relate to Obama's tax plan, but it does relate to Obama's foreign policy.

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[DarkArtist81]

Good God that video was hard to sit through...and not in a good way. First off.... he has the right to believe whatever he chooses to believe. I recognize that he too is a veteran, just with a different view of the war.

Now, first off... I have to say that I understand that once we were there, what we were doing had a positive outlook. But our reasons for going were skewed from the start, and honestly I don't think it was a good choice militarily to invade and occupy Iraq.

Second... McCain has blocked increased GI Bill benefits for veterans and has also voted against funding for returning vets healthcare. There are a laundry list of complaints that I can go into.. But I will just post an article from VetVoice.com...

Voting Against Veterans

Veterans Groups Give McCain Failing Grades.
In its most recent legislative ratings, the non-partisan Disabled American Veterans gave Sen. McCain a 20 percent rating for his voting record on veterans' issues. Similarly, the non-partisan Iraq & Afghanistan Veterans of America gave McCain a "D" grade for his poor voting record on veterans' issues, including McCain's votes against additional body armor for troops in combat and additional funding for PTSD and TBI screening and treatment.

McCain Voted Against Increased Funding for Veterans' Health Care. Although McCain told voters at a campaign rally that improving veterans' health care was his top domestic priority, he voted against increasing funding for veterans' health care in 2004, 2005, 2006 and 2007. (Greenville News, 12/12/2007; S.Amdt. 2745 to S.C.R. 95, Vote 40, 3/10/04; Senate S.C.R. 18, Vote 55, 3/16/05; S.Amdt. 3007 to S.C.R. 83, Vote 41, 3/14/06; H.R. 1591, Vote 126, 3/29/07)

McCain Voted At Least 28 Times Against Veterans' Benefits, Including Healthcare. Since arriving in the U.S. Senate in 1987, McCain has voted at least 28 times against ensuring important benefits for America's veterans, including providing adequate healthcare. (2006 Senate Vote #7, 41, 63, 67, 98, 222; 2005 Senate Votes #55, 89, 90, 251, 343; 2004 Senate Votes #40, 48, 145; 2003 Senate Votes #74, 81, 83; 1999 Senate Vote #328; 1998 Senate Vote #175; 1997 Senate Vote #168; 1996 Senate Votes #115, 275; 1995 Senate Votes #76, 226, 466; 1994 Senate Vote #306; 1992 Senate Vote #194; 1991 Senate Vote #259)

McCain Voted Against Providing Automatic Cost-of-Living Adjustments to Veterans. McCain voted against providing automatic annual cost-of-living adjustments for certain veterans' benefits. (S. 869, Vote 259, 11/20/91)
McCain Voted to Underfund Department of Veterans Affairs. McCain voted for an appropriations bill that underfunded the Departments of Veterans Affairs and Housing and Urban Development by $8.9 billion. (H.R. 2099, Vote 470, 9/27/95)

McCain Voted Against $44.3 Billion for Veterans Programs. McCain was one of five senators to vote against a bill providing $44.3 billion for the Department of Veterans Affairs, plus funding for other federal agencies. (H.R. 2684, Vote 328, 10/15/99)
McCain Voted Against $47 Billion for the Department of Veterans Affairs. McCain was one of eight senators to vote against a bill that provided $47 billion for the Department of Veterans Affairs. (H.R. 4635, Vote 272, 10/12/00)

McCain Voted Against $51 Billion in Veterans Funding. McCain was one of five senators to vote against the bill and seven to vote against the conference report that provided $51.1 billion for the Department of Veterans Affairs, as well as funding for the federal housing, environmental and emergency management agencies and NASA. (H.R. 2620, Vote 334, 11/8/01; Vote 269, 8/2/01)

McCain Voted Against $122.7 Billion for Department of Veterans Affairs. McCain voted against an appropriations bill that included $122.7 billion in fiscal 2004 for the Department of Veterans Affairs, Housing and Urban Development and other related agencies. (H.R. 2861, Vote 449, 11/12/03)

McCain Opposed $500 Million for Counseling Services for Veterans with Mental Disorders. McCain voted against an amendment to appropriate $500 million annually from 2006-2010 for counseling, mental health and rehabilitation services for veterans diagnosed with mental illness, posttraumatic stress disorder or substance abuse. (S. 2020, S.Amdt. 2634, Vote 343, 11/17/05)

McCain opposed an Assured Funding Stream for Veterans' Health Care. McCain opposed providing an assured funding stream for veterans' health care, taking into account annual changes in veterans' population and inflation. (S.Amdt. 3141 to S.C.R. 83, Vote 63, 3/16/06)

McCain Voted Against Adding More Than $400 Million for Veterans' Care. McCain was one of 13 Republicans to vote against providing an additional $430 million to the Department of Veterans Affairs for outpatient care and treatment for veterans. (S.Amdt. 3642 to H.R. 4939, Vote 98, 4/26/06)

McCain Supported Outsourcing VA Jobs. McCain opposed an amendment that would have prevented the Department of Veterans Affairs from outsourcing jobs, many held by blue-collar veterans, without first giving the workers a chance to compete. (S.Amdt. 2673 to H.R. 2642, Vote 315, 9/6/07)

McCain Opposed the 21st Century GI Bill Because It Was Too Generous. McCain did not vote on the GI Bill that will provide better educational opportunities to veterans of the Afghanistan and Iraq wars, paying full tuition at in-state schools and living expenses for those who have served at least three years since the 9/11 attacks. McCain said he opposes the bill because he thinks the generous benefits would "encourage more people to leave the military." (S.Amdt. 4803 to H.R. 2642, Vote 137, 5/22/08; Chattanooga Times Free Press, 6/2/08; Boston Globe, 5/23/08; ABCNews.com, 5/26/08)

Disabled American Veterans Legislative Director Said That McCain's Proposal Would Increase Costs For Veterans Because His Plan Relies On Private Hospitals Which Are More Expensive and Which Could Also Lead To Further Rationing Of Care. "To help veterans who live far from VA hospitals or need specialized care the VA can't provide, McCain proposed giving low-income veterans and those who incurred injury during their service a card they could use at private hospitals. The proposal is not an attempt to privatize the VA, as critics have alleged, but rather, an effort to improve care and access to it, he said. Joe Violanti, legislative director of the Disabled American Veterans, a nonpartisan organization, said the proposal would increase costs because private hospitals are more expensive. The increased cost could lead to further rationing of care, he said." (Las Vegas Sun, 8/10/08)

Lack of Support for the Troops

McCain co-sponsored the Use of Force Authorization. McCain supported the bill that gave President George W. Bush the green light--and a blank check--for going to war with Iraq. (SJ Res 46, 10/3/02)


McCain Opposed Increasing Spending on TRICARE and Giving Greater Access to National Guard and Reservists. Although his campaign website devotes a large section to veterans issues, including expanding benefits for reservists and members of the National Guard, McCain voted against increasing spending on the TRICARE program by $20.3 billion over 10 years to give members of the National Guard and Reserves and their families greater access to the health care program. The increase would be offset by a reduction in tax cuts for the wealthy. (S.Amdt. 324 to S.C.R. 23, Vote 81, 3/25/03)

McCain voted against holding Bush accountable for his actions in the war. McCain opposed the creation of an independent commission to investigate the development and use of intelligence leading up to the war in Iraq. (S.Amdt. 1275 to H.R. 2658, Vote 284, 7/16/03)

McCain voted Against Establishing a $1 Billion Trust Fund for Military Health Facilities. McCain voted against establishing a $1 billion trust fund to improve military health facilities by refusing to repeal tax cuts for those making more than $1 million a year. (S.Amdt. 2735 to S.Amdt. 2707 to H.R. 4297, Vote 7, 2/2/06)
Senator McCain opposed efforts to end the overextension of the military--a policy that is having a devastating impact on our troops. McCain voted against requiring mandatory minimum downtime between tours of duty for troops serving in Iraq. (S.Amdt.. 2909 to S.Amdt. 2011 to HR 1585, Vote 341, 9/19/07; S.Amdt. 2012 to S.Amdt. 2011 to HR 1585, Vote 241, 7/11/07)

McCain announced his willingness to keep U.S. troops in Iraq for decades--a statement sure to inflame Iraqis and endanger American troops. McCain: "Make it a hundred" years in Iraq and "that would be fine with me." (Derry, New Hampshire Town Hall meeting, 1/3/08)

 

[Batty]

Josh, why do you hate America?

 

[DarkArtist81]

Josh, why do you hate America?

Because America hates me...

 

[Anzik]

Each candidate has weaknesses.
To me it comes down to basics:
1) National security
2) Economic recovery and growth
3) The role of government in everyday life

I think the aggressors of the world will see Obama as weak, since he has given them proof, with his opposition to the surge (A surge that would have been unnecessary if Bush listened to McCain and put more troops on the ground at the start.), and his reaction to Georgia.

Obama's tax ceiling has dropped from 250,000 to 200,000, to 150,000 to 120,000. Its just basic economics that if you increase the costs on a business it gets passed on to the consumer and the work force through higher prices and lay offs. The problem is spending, something Obama wants to increase and McCain has always opposed.

Obama wants control over how much we can earn. He wants severe gun control. He wants to expand the role of the educational system.

On a personal note, I don't like Obama's integrity.
He claims he wasn't aware of Rev Wright's views, which is ridiculous to believe. More importantly he was unaffected and not disturbed by them.
He is on tape on his 2001 NPR interview openly discussing redistribution, but has used no such wording during his campaign. (Except when he slipped with Joe the Plumber.)
He has refrained from voting on issues that might make him take a clear position.
He said the Bill Ayers was just a guy in his neighborhood but that was clearly not the case.
He said he would use public financing and went back on his word.
He said no off shore drilling and then said he would 'consider it'.
He has proclaimed himself a supporter of Israel but has a long friendship with Rashid Khalidi who was long an adviser to the PLO and Arafat.

The only thing that has been consistent is that he will say anything to get elected.
In his own words the other day, he wants to fundamentally transform America. I think fundamentally America is just fine. She could use a tune up, but how many of you really believe this country is fundamentally flawed?

 

[KitFisto]

Each candidate has weaknesses.
To me it comes down to basics:
1) National security
2) Economic recovery and growth
3) The role of government in everyday life

I think the aggressors of the world will see Obama as weak, since he has given them proof, with his opposition to the surge (A surge that would have been unnecessary if Bush listened to McCain and put more troops on the ground at the start.), and his reaction to Georgia.

Obama's tax ceiling has dropped from 250,000 to 200,000, to 150,000 to 120,000. Its just basic economics that if you increase the costs on a business it gets passed on to the consumer and the work force through higher prices and lay offs. The problem is spending, something Obama wants to increase and McCain has always opposed.

Obama wants control over how much we can earn. He wants severe gun control. He wants to expand the role of the educational system.

On a personal note, I don't like Obama's integrity.
He claims he wasn't aware of Rev Wright's views, which is ridiculous to believe. More importantly he was unaffected and not disturbed by them.
He is on tape on his 2001 NPR interview openly discussing redistribution, but has used no such wording during his campaign. (Except when he slipped with Joe the Plumber.)
He has refrained from voting on issues that might make him take a clear position.
He said the Bill Ayers was just a guy in his neighborhood but that was clearly not the case.
He said he would use public financing and went back on his word.
He said no off shore drilling and then said he would 'consider it'.
He has proclaimed himself a supporter of Israel but has a long friendship with Rashid Khalidi who was long an adviser to the PLO and Arafat.

The only thing that has been consistent is that he will say anything to get elected.
In his own words the other day, he wants to fundamentally transform America. I think fundamentally America is just fine. She could use a tune up, but how many of you really believe this country is fundamentally flawed?

 

[Bodie The Cursed]

I don't see how anyone can support Palin. She is stupider than stupid.. No way should she represent our Country in any way what-so-ever..

Im no Demo nor Repub.. I don't see how anyone can vote for that idiot. She is an embarassment.

 

[KitFisto]

I don't see how anyone can support Palin. She is stupider than stupid.. No way should she represent our Country in any way what-so-ever..

Im no Demo nor Repub.. I don't see how anyone can vote for that idiot. She is an embarassment.

That's a view, but I feel the same about Obama. I don't vote for a VP anyway. VP's are window dressing at best. They may be "one step away" from being president, but the last time a VP had to take over was Ford and that's because Nixon was caught being a bad little boy!

 

[Shai]

some of those are funny....

https://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=18655

 

[Jen]

some of those are funny....

https://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=18655

Those are good.

I think no matter who wins, we are going to have some long, hard years ahead of us.

 

[Anzik]

Lets see...

Palin is an example of what an ordinary person can achieve with hard work and determination and an honest approach.

Don't want someone like that representing America.

 

[The Josh]

Each candidate has weaknesses.
To me it comes down to basics:
1) National security
2) Economic recovery and growth
3) The role of government in everyday life

I agree but for me McCain is much weaker than in the areas that IMO really matter.

1. Economic Recovery and Growth
2. Education
3. Health Care
4. Taxes

Ya know you list the role of government but in the last 8 years under Bush they're more involved and have more access to our lives than ever before.

I think the aggressors of the world will see Obama as weak, since he has given them proof, with his opposition to the surge (A surge that would have been unnecessary if Bush listened to McCain and put more troops on the ground at the start.), and his reaction to Georgia.

I don't think so. I think many of the worlds nations will look and see we have someone who is willing to talk when they need to and shoot when they need to. Unlike Bush or McCain who just want to shoot. We should never have gone into Iraq anyways. That was nothing more than payback for his dad's screw up. There where other places Afghanistan or Darfur that we should have been paying attention to.

Obama's tax ceiling has dropped from 250,000 to 200,000, to 150,000 to 120,000. Its just basic economics that if you increase the costs on a business it gets passed on to the consumer and the work force through higher prices and lay offs. The problem is spending, something Obama wants to increase and McCain has always opposed.

No it hasn't. Not sure where you got that info but that is totally false. His tax level is 250k and has not dropped a single dime. The costs that he is going to raise is to major businesses like Exon Mobile. Companies that can afford to take that kind of a hit. Obama has some spending he will do but he's also going to be cutting things that don't work. Hence it balances out in the long run and McCain will increase spending too but also says he will freeze spending which totally doesn't make sense. In other words he has no clue as to what he's going to do so he says both to appease everyone.

Obama wants control over how much we can earn. He wants severe gun control. He wants to expand the role of the educational system.

Again not sure where you got your info but its so utterly false its funny. As far as the gun control we need more of it and we need to figure out a way to do better with the laws on the books. That way people who want to own guns can and keep guns out of the crazies hands. Is there something wrong with wanting to expand the educational system?

As a teacher we need to do more to make sure people can get the best education possible. Do more to help public schools instead of things like vouchers which only hurt the public schools. Help make college more affordable for people so its not something for only the wealthiest of the wealthy. If we help the educational system in this country more people get a better education and therefore now have more doors to better jobs.

A side note I had to get student loans to go to college. If not for those I wouldn't have been able to. Do things the way McCain and the Republicans want to and folks like me won't be able to go.

On a personal note, I don't like Obama's integrity.

McCain isn't exactly squeaky clean either.

He claims he wasn't aware of Rev Wright's views, which is ridiculous to believe. More importantly he was unaffected and not disturbed by them.

The tapes that are out there of that one sermon is bad and makes one wonder. I don't know how bad the guy is overall but its a mark on him. I don't however think Obama is anti American.

He is on tape on his 2001 NPR interview openly discussing redistribution, but has used no such wording during his campaign. (Except when he slipped with Joe the Plumber.)
He has refrained from voting on issues that might make him take a clear position.

I think this again goes to words being taken and twisted to make things appear as if they're not. The whole redistribution of wealth in true terms come from those making the 250k pay in taxes and used as credits for those on the lower end of the scale. I'm not sure why this is much of an issue as it helps them dig out and get to a place they can move up. Yes, there will be people that take advantage but there are wealthy doing that now which IMO is way worse.

He said the Bill Ayers was just a guy in his neighborhood but that was clearly not the case.[.quote]

Again, not true. Outside of a couple meetings in which they both set on a board they didn't hang out.

He said he would use public financing and went back on his word.

For years the Republicans had the advantage in financing and now that a Democrat has it you guys get all touchy. If McCain had all this money I guarantee you wouldn't be saying a thing.

He said no off shore drilling and then said he would 'consider it'.

Drilling isn't the answer. Plain and simple. I actually don't care for the fact he's now considering it. We need to find ways that take better care of the one and only planet we have to live on.

He has proclaimed himself a supporter of Israel but has a long friendship with Rashid Khalidi who was long an adviser to the PLO and Arafat.

I have friends who are huge racists. Hate anyone not white but I'm not racists. So just because you have a friendship with someone doesn't make you that way.

In his own words the other day, he wants to fundamentally transform America. I think fundamentally America is just fine. She could use a tune up, but how many of you really believe this country is fundamentally flawed?

I think we got some pretty serious issues. We're too much of a nation that only cares about "I" and not enough about "we". Not enough caring about your neighbor and doing whats right for the most amount of people. So yeah I think we have some fundamental flaws.

I heard something the other day that I think I agree with. MOST people who tend to vote Democrat honestly care about their neighbor while MOST that tend to vote Republican only care about themselves.

 

[The Josh]

Lets see...

Palin is an example of what an ordinary person can achieve with hard work and determination and an honest approach.

Don't want someone like that representing America.

Are you serious? That woman is about as close to honest as Richard Nixon.

 

[Batty]

some of those are funny....

https://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=18655

Cool link. I never saw the Jamie Hernandez one. I'm a huge fan of the Hernandez Brothers.



Now back to the bickering...

 

[LOTRFan]

 

[Bodie The Cursed]

That's a view, but I feel the same about Obama. I don't vote for a VP anyway. VP's are window dressing at best. They may be "one step away" from being president, but the last time a VP had to take over was Ford and that's because Nixon was caught being a bad little boy!

I respect your opinion.. However I feel w/ Old man McCain, Palin is closer than one step away..

Also I firmly believe Cheaney had more influence than Bush over the last 8 years..

Do you really believe Palin should repre3sent our Country even though she is "only" the VP?..

She would make us a laughing stock over the next 4 years..


Again, I am no Repub or Demo.. I vote for the best fit in the current situation.

 

[The Josh]

Brother