Official 1/6th Darth Vader Thread

[devilof76]

I want a Vader for each duel, which is why an ESB version is imperative. I wouldn't want to substitute him with a ROTJ one.

I would agree with you except for one thing. Piett fully expected Vader to kill him after the Falcon got away at the end of ESB. But Vader didn't kill him. He simply walked on. That in addition to the fact that when he called out to Luke, Luke recognized it as his father--not Vader.

That may have belied a conflict in Luke more than Vader. I have very strong recollection of the first time I saw the movie, and the impression I had back then was that Vader was getting into Luke's head. Luke may have responded to his voice as "father", but the voice was still Vader.

As for Piett, I think Vader may have spared him because he himself had failed as utterly. He had everything riding on the success of that whole mission (from Hoth to Bespin) and it was a wash. Another body on the pile would have served no purpose other than to vent, and I don't think he had the energy left even for that.

I can see the roots of Vader's conflict between total domination and redemption (the options are mutually exclusive) beginning here, but I don't think he was truly conflicted until ROTJ. He began ESB hunting the rebel who destroyed the Death Star, a symbol of his failure against whom he seeks revenge. He learns that it is his son, he sees an opportunity to not only redeem his failure, but to actually overtake Palpatine. Whether he has reached the point where he wants to return to his old path or not would be speculation at the end of the film. I'm sure that the revelation that his son is alive has awakened feelings for Padme and his lost family, but I don't think the first blush of that would be enough to immediately turn him from the deep-seeded powerlust that has overgrown him for 20 years as a Sith lord. That's a lot of malice to work through and the idea that Luke could serve as a tool for his ascendance would hold a lot of weight for quite some time.

 

[pixletwin]

I must not be explaining myself at all very well because you just said what I have been trying to say but your tone is as if you are disagreeing with me.

 

[DinoLast]

I think it's a given that in ESB, Vader was only interested in using Luke to overthrow Palpatine. He pretty much knows that Luke is his son at the start of Empire but try's to hide it from Palpatine by playing dumb when told the son of Skywalker is still alive.

But when he saw that his son chose falling to his sudden death over joining the Darkside, the first example that Luke was stronger against the temptation of the darkside, that's when the conflict began to build in Vader.
It's amazing how in our minds the masked Helmet of vader emotes so much sadness at the end of ESB and ROTJ.

 

[FlyAndFight]

I would agree with you except for one thing. Piett fully expected Vader to kill him after the Falcon got away at the end of ESB. But Vader didn't kill him. He simply walked on. That in addition to the fact that when he called out to Luke, Luke recognized it as his father--not Vader.

Based on my initial viewings (prior to the prequels attempt at raping my childhood... ) I saw the Piett scene as simply Vader being too preoccupied with what had transpired between him and Luke. His plan was thwarted but he was contemplating the situation and perhaps a future attempt to bring Luke to the dark side. Piett's "future" just wasn't as urgent to deal with at the moment.

It was only in RotJ that Vader refers to Luke as "my son". Remember that even the Emperor hadn't sensed Luke on Endor whereas Vader had.

In Empire it was all about "Power". Vader was attempting to pull the same old plan as he had with Padme... "Join me and we can rule the galaxy together as "Father & Son" / "King and Queen", but first we'll need to get rid of the Emperor/Sidious...

 

[drod26]

It's amazing how in our minds the masked Helmet of vader emotes so much sadness at the end of ESB and ROTJ.

I agree with this. Most of the images I remember from Vader are sad moments. He never really look that hard and cold, evil unless he was dealing with his crew members..

 

[thenammagazine]

I agree with this. Most of the images I remember from Vader are sad moments. He never really look that hard and cold, evil unless he was dealing with his crew members..

And how many people here think that the PT didn't add any depth to the saga?

 

[cerealkeller]

And how many people here think that the PT didn't add any depth to the saga?

The PT added so much to ROTJ in particular for me. Scenes like Vader and Luke on Endor are so much more powerful now. Also, Vader looking at the Emperor electrifying Luke is now my favorite scene in all six movies. You really can see Vader's life flashing before his eyes as he comes to terms with what he must do: Kill his master to save his son. It's no longer a matter of turning Luke to the darkside and kill the Emperor and rule the galaxy. It comes down to the point where none of that matters anymore. He just wants to save his son.

Call me a dork but I ^^^^ING LOVE STAR WARS!!!!! To me, it's the greatest story ever told.

 

[thenammagazine]

The PT added so much to ROTJ in particular for me. Scenes like Vader and Luke on Endor are so much more powerful now. Also, Vader looking at the Emperor electrifying Luke is now my favorite scene in all six movies. You really can see Vader's life flashing before his eyes as he comes to terms with what he must do: Kill his master to save his son. It's no longer a matter of turning Luke to the darkside and kill the Emperor and rule the galaxy. It comes down to the point where none of that matters anymore. He just wants to save his son.

Call me a dork but I ^^^^ING LOVE STAR WARS!!!!! To me, it's the greatest story ever told.

I think a few of us joined you in that boat. I remember watching ROTS then speeding home to watch the OT again. Man, what a difference, then the whole thing, nearly thirty years of history, climaxed during the funeral pier and changed the perception (for us open minded fans) of the Star Wars saga from a trilogy about Luke, to a sextet about the rise and fall of Darth Vader.

On a side note, to this day I find it really freaking creepy that none of the OT scenes were re-shot yet still, in their original context, now possess an entirely new meaning, fitting perfectly with our new perceptions.

 

[cerealkeller]

That's part of the beauty of what Lucas did. Our own perception of certain "points of view". Was Palpatine actually the Father of Anakin by using the force to create him? Questions such as this are not answered and rightly so. What did Balance of the Force actually mean? Which side? or a healthy dose of both so to speak? Like i tell people that don't "get" Star Wars. It's as deep as how deep you read into it. For me, it's the story of Anakin Skywalker and Darth Vader.

 

[devilof76]

I must not be explaining myself at all very well because you just said what I have been trying to say but your tone is as if you are disagreeing with me.

Then you're right.

I think the people disagreeing with you confused me.

And I'm also one who came out of ROTS with a deeper appreciation. The whole PT worked that way for me. As a kid, even though I was one the good guys' side, I still felt like it was Vader's story, and was never completely satisfied with where the trilogy left things. I needed more (and eventually got it).

 

[Lee in MI]

I think a few of us joined you in that boat. I remember watching ROTS then speeding home to watch the OT again. Man, what a difference, then the whole thing, nearly thirty years of history, climaxed during the funeral pier and changed the perception (for us open minded fans) of the Star Wars saga from a trilogy about Luke, to a sextet about the rise and fall of Darth Vader.

On a side note, to this day I find it really freaking creepy that none of the OT scenes were re-shot yet still, in their original context, now possess an entirely new meaning, fitting perfectly with our new perceptions.

yes...YES...YESSSSS!!!! My feelings exactly!

 

[Fia2k9]

To me it's the OT all the way and always will be. There was always something lacking in the new trilogy. Maybe the overall lack of flow due to trying to explain away too many elements?... for sure too much cgi...

To me the OT stands alone because it has a beginning a middle and an end.

If you can still find it on line, try giving some of Lucas' original backstory source material a read ( I think they call it the annotated scripts). Pretty interesting stuff... very mythological kind of like the king Arthur legend.

 

[drod26]

And how many people here think that the PT didn't add any depth to the saga?

sorry fellows but what does PT stand for?

 

[Valfar]

sorry fellows but what does PT stand for?

Prequel Trilogy.

 

[OSCORP]

I can view it in a few ways. And sometimes look at Vader's turn with tragedy in there. And then sometimes i think "man, he went to the darkside for a chick?...WTF!"

And that is not how i thought Vader would turn while watching the OT as a kid. But like i said i can view it in multiple ways, while still letting my imagination flow.

 

[jkno]

I grew up with the Original Trilogy. The Prequels brought some new things but many were confusing: midichlorians, the Fetts, clones and droids wars, gungans with Jar Jar etc. For me Vader remains the one seen in OT.

 

[Venomous venom]

ya..even jedi could have a broken heart....i think its normally...when someone who fell over in love and becoming childish when someone that he loved,turn into another man( maybe ani thought that obi had affair with amidala )...but the fact that make me confused...why ani said that the emperor was the good guy ...didnt he see that ugly monster face ? even kids could know whos the bad guy...emperor or mace windu..hahaha..thats why many of us better to choose the OT vader than the childish ani...

 

[EVILFACE]

And then sometimes i think "man, he went to the darkside for a chick?...WTF!".

Maybe he thought the same thing, and that is why he was so ruthless in the OT

 

[thenammagazine]

To me it's the OT all the way and always will be. There was always something lacking in the new trilogy. Maybe the overall lack of flow due to trying to explain away too many elements?... for sure too much cgi...

To me the OT stands alone because it has a beginning a middle and an end.

Uh....okay? Anakin being discovered and taken on as a padawan, becoming a Jedi and then turning to the dark side of the force, only to be saved in ROTJ by Luke at the end of his life. Seems pretty much like a complete story to me. Lucas always talked about going back and doing the "beginning" aka the rise and fall of Darth Vader. If you were looking to the PT to be it's own story, you missed the boat.

I can view it in a few ways. And sometimes look at Vader's turn with tragedy in there. And then sometimes i think "man, he went to the darkside for a chick?...WTF!"

She was his first lay after all...

 

[Fia2k9]

Uh....okay? Anakin being discovered and taken on as a padawan, becoming a Jedi and then turning to the dark side of the force, only to be saved in ROTJ by Luke at the end of his life. Seems pretty much like a complete story to me. Lucas always talked about going back and doing the "beginning" aka the rise and fall of Darth Vader. If you were looking to the PT to be it's own story, you missed the boat.


She was his first lay after all...

I have no quams with the overall plot structure of the PT only the delivery method. I do understand that Lucas always wanted to tell the back story but I cant help think that he shoulv'e had help with the screenplays, like he did wih Empire and Jedi in the OT....by all means there was some great stuff in the PT but also alot of not so good stuff.