Side by side comparison thread!
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really awesom thread. never seen that Dorothy before
gido
Super Freak
Hi,godfather!Your pm box is full!
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Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk
Hey guys due to licence issues and respecting artists I've had to take the pictures down....... This thread will be phased out soon sadly.
I respect the artist's and didn't mean to cause any bad feelings. Thanks anyways guys.
I respect the artist's and didn't mean to cause any bad feelings. Thanks anyways guys.
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gido
Super Freak
That's pitty.I think pictures will speak by them self.Here was oportunity to see some interesting projects with prototipes, which maybe you miss in full forum.Maybe without too much"bla-bla-bla"it will be allowed?Just pic and name of artist-no comments.
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Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk
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turbo.VS.ozone
Super Freak
Recently there was some discussion about the differences and similarities between 2 sculpts. Most of the comments were deleted because the conversation was considered derailing to the interest thread and deemed more appropriate to be taken to a discussion thread. I came across this thread and it seems the perfect place to continue the conversation as long as it continues to remain civil and respectful as it was in the interest thread before comments being deleted.
So, we were talking about the interesting similarities between Rainmans original and iconic Bill The Butcher Masterpiece and a recently revealed amazing sculpt of Bill The Butcher by some anonymous sculptor who apparently does not want to be identified. Interest in Bill as a character figure has always been high and much of that interest is a direct result of Rainmans original presentation of it in 1/6 form. It has been the subject of many debates from scarcity and availabilty, to proposed and certified secondarymarket value, to what it has come to represent to the culture of custom art 1/6 figures as a whole. One thing that is rarely done however, is compare it to other Bill the Butchers or DDL likenesses because many do not exist but one can assume it's because Rainman's sculpt has been received by many as DEFINITIVE......You be the judge.
Top: Rainman's Early WIP of Bill V1 (Notice the detail of the "pinch" on the cap was not added yet.)
Bottom: Bill the Butcher WIP sculpt by Anonymous
So, we were talking about the interesting similarities between Rainmans original and iconic Bill The Butcher Masterpiece and a recently revealed amazing sculpt of Bill The Butcher by some anonymous sculptor who apparently does not want to be identified. Interest in Bill as a character figure has always been high and much of that interest is a direct result of Rainmans original presentation of it in 1/6 form. It has been the subject of many debates from scarcity and availabilty, to proposed and certified secondarymarket value, to what it has come to represent to the culture of custom art 1/6 figures as a whole. One thing that is rarely done however, is compare it to other Bill the Butchers or DDL likenesses because many do not exist but one can assume it's because Rainman's sculpt has been received by many as DEFINITIVE......You be the judge.
Top: Rainman's Early WIP of Bill V1 (Notice the detail of the "pinch" on the cap was not added yet.)
Bottom: Bill the Butcher WIP sculpt by Anonymous
Are you sure we're allowed to talk about this? 
The new sculpt is nice but we still have to see how it takes paint. That could add or detract from it. I really like the texture of the cap on the new sculpt but I think the shape is wrong. Looking at shape of the cap/head, shape of the face and general likeness I personally prefer Rainman's. That's not to say that the new sculpt isn't really nice. Mr./Mrs. "Anonymous" is clearly extraordinarily talented and I really like his/her Joker sculpt.
I'm not sure what the main premise of the deleted convo/argument was but if it had to do with doing things too similarly to ground that other artists have already conquered, then I can see a lot of points behind that argument. The flipside of that is "a neutral expression is default and how different can a neutral expression for any given character be?". My opinion is a different expression would have been better to avoid comparisons, artistic and ethical questions and accusations and just to deliver something new and different to the community. That's the way I feel about most similar situations, but then again in this particular instance this was the artist's personal piece and when it was shown people clamored for a run. So there is a bit of grey area here
The new sculpt is nice but we still have to see how it takes paint. That could add or detract from it. I really like the texture of the cap on the new sculpt but I think the shape is wrong. Looking at shape of the cap/head, shape of the face and general likeness I personally prefer Rainman's. That's not to say that the new sculpt isn't really nice. Mr./Mrs. "Anonymous" is clearly extraordinarily talented and I really like his/her Joker sculpt.
I'm not sure what the main premise of the deleted convo/argument was but if it had to do with doing things too similarly to ground that other artists have already conquered, then I can see a lot of points behind that argument. The flipside of that is "a neutral expression is default and how different can a neutral expression for any given character be?". My opinion is a different expression would have been better to avoid comparisons, artistic and ethical questions and accusations and just to deliver something new and different to the community. That's the way I feel about most similar situations, but then again in this particular instance this was the artist's personal piece and when it was shown people clamored for a run. So there is a bit of grey area here
It was basically said that this was a copy. A copy of what exactly? A specific scene and look in a movie? - yes. A direct copy from another artists work? I do not believe this. As Mike said, it would be nice to see other expressions if the same character is to be done again. Just because a well established artist does a certain character and look, does not mean no other artist can do the same. The reference material is from the film, not another's head sculpt. This artist also chose the same look, and based on that, if both artists are talented, they should look the same! And they do. 1/6 characters and 1/6 does not stop at Rainman. We can also compare some of RM's characters that had been done prior to his releases that also look the same. I don't think he was copying the previous release...
Look at all the jokers heads.
Should there be only room for one?
Look at all the jokers heads.
Should there be only room for one?
MarfMaster
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Yep, this is basically the point I made in the other thread. Pretty simple, if you ask me.
turbo.VS.ozone
Super Freak
I strongly disagree with you. The sculpt by anonymous in my opinion, after looking at it carefully would suggest that there are very clear design elements within the details that try to attempt to replicate (copy) sculpting techniques and methods previously used by Rainman. This is why I suggested it's a copy of Rainmans previous work. The word copy was used because the definition of it means to make a similar version of; imitate a style; or made to be identical to another. The anonymous sculpt fits the criteria for each one of those definitions when you consider it in comparison to the Rainman original, the most evident of that being the Mustache Stems. That is a signature Rainman design/detail. I'm not questioning his decision to sculpt Bill, I'm questioning the methods and techniques he used to achieve his desired sculpt; techniques that would suggest he was more influenced by Rainman's sculpt than say images or screencaps from the movie.
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But if we both drew the same picture of an object, would they not look similar? I am not sure what techniques RM uses that are different to any other sculptor except his talent. His Bill and DDL are by far the best, but I don't see any special techniques used...
And the more closely I look at them, the more different they actually are. A quick glance suggests they are the same, but really looking at the side by side, there are a lot of differences I can see...
And the more closely I look at them, the more different they actually are. A quick glance suggests they are the same, but really looking at the side by side, there are a lot of differences I can see...
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It's a specific look from a specific scene, have 10 sculptors sculpt the integration Joker and see how similar they look. Bottom line is babygq is selling knockoffs of RMs actual sculpts on facebook that's where your frustration should be , and this person created a whole new sculpt. Let the people that want it be happy, I understand you're worried about your investment but are you really going to sell your RM anyhow? Just like PCK commented noone has even seen this painted and there's not even any clothing for it, I think the Rainman Grail is safe.
Just wanted to make sure you knew this was not sarcasm I really am a RM supporter I think his stuff is phenomenal I'm just looking at it from an outsider looking in.
It's a specific look from a specific scene, have 10 sculptors sculpt the integration Joker and see how similar they look. Bottom line is babygq is selling knockoffs of RMs actual sculpts on facebook that's where your frustration should be , and this person created a whole new sculpt. Let the people that want it be happy, I understand you're worried about your investment but are you really going to sell your RM anyhow? Just like PCK commented noone has even seen this painted and there's not even any clothing for it, I think the Rainman Grail is safe.
Just wanted to make sure you knew this was not sarcasm I really am a RM supporter I think his stuff is phenomenal I'm just looking at it from an outsider looking in.
Yes, it seems that we are getting frustrated over a new talented artist!!?
Sounds crazy when you put it like that!
And if this said artist is in fact copying RM's "techniques", then we are in for some fantastic sculpts to come!!!!
turbo.VS.ozone
Super Freak
The first answer to your question is no. In art or more to the point sculpting there is room for interpretation. There are at least 5 design elements to that Anonymous sculpt that suggest it's more of an attempt at a copy of Rainmans, than an attempt to try and distance itself a bit in favor of something unique and original.
The differences you see I would attribute more to the Anonymous sculpt not achieving the likeness and overall shape as fine as the Rainman version already has.
This is when conversations start to go off on a tangent, so let me grab the wheel again
There shouldn't be any frustration with regard to new sculptors showcasing their work. I don't see any harm in having a debate about what sculpts a person prefers and why though. Its all subjective, but it gets crazy when arguments are made that don't support the topic at hand, things like people who own a Rainman Bill dont want to see any other Bills. These type of things a just not true. The more the merrier but collectors are entitled to have a preference without having resort to drama. If opinion and critic are going to be taken personal than maybe
this isn't the conversation for you. This is an attempt to see what people think.
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But who would buy the sculpt of it looked like Picasso? 1/6 sculpting and character likeness isn't open to interpretation at all. If you don't nail it, you don't sell it...
Here is another WW by the amazing Sean Dabbs.
Looks similar to Trevor's, but doesn't mean he has copied it. This is the characters look...
Looks similar to Trevor's, but doesn't mean he has copied it. This is the characters look...
Turbo you seem generally upset about this Bill sculpt, I think you are over exaggerating nobody here is insinuating this will replace Rain Man current masterpiece. We here at SSF might have just acquired another amazing sculptor we should be ecstatic over it, and encouraging him or her to stay. I missed out on Rainmans Bill the butcher and wish I had the money to buy it, or somebody would even give me the opportunity to buy one. So for some of us this is just a second chance that we are excited about, and like I said earlier this is just the head sculpt even if I buy this I now have to track someone down to make an outfit, knife kit and a coat, which at this time is impossible!
I don't think Turbo has a problem with another Bill. He has stated that in the previous post, and he is on the list for the new sculpt, so he is not against it. I think he is just pointing out how similar it is to RM's... Not sure why though, as he seems he is all for it, and replying posts have taken his opinion as somewhat negative toward the new Bill, including mine...
turbo.VS.ozone
Super Freak
Marlin that is the most ridiculous statement I've heard. I didn't say Picasso, you did....thats a bit of a stretch, but actually Picasso did do some sculpting in his later years and most of that stuff is worth millions. As far as your no room for interpretation, I'm guessing You've never heard of DAM Toys? It's a 1/6 company google it. Very interpretive
But if you want to argue that point than I guess you can say that this is what Anyomous thought himself, that he needed to attempt to replicate an already successful sculpt because if it's not "popular" than it won't sell.
Lejuan
Super Freak
Recast = bad, imitation = who cares
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