Star Wars: Episode IX - THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

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Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Interesting thoughts, Lu. I think the issue I've had with RO (though I'm kind of the reverse - I've liked it better in seeing it again, though that may be due to the trauma of me giving up on the main trilogy) is it's a bit of a humorless slog. It's a very dour tone with drab sets and costumes, actors underplaying everything, where everyone looks like they haven't showered or shaved in a month (Jyn included:lol.)

I get it - it's a "real" war movie - but as the hard lead-in to the often dazzling and jubilant ANH, it feels a bit odd - sleep-inducing grey flatline replacing energetic and clearly marked black & white of ANH.

The thing I really like most about RO is that it "feels" SW - in terms of the visuals and sequences - even if doing SW as a dark war movie was an easy/obvious thing to do (it was always WWII in space, from costumes to story.) I love the whole Scariff battle, the Tarkin/Vader stuff and quite a few of the visuals (Star Destroyer above the town, death star stuff) and these days, you should feel grateful to have so much goodness in a SW movie. RO is set inside ANH, so its comfort food no matter what.

To me, these are the dark times for SW, the days of the Empire - especially when you remember a more civilized age. RO, deep flaws and all, felt like a little hologram message sent from that era, even if it was static-filled and glitchy.

Yeah, I get all of that and like I said before, I like it in theory. I like plenty of slow, dark and somber movies (does Blade Runner 2049 count as that? because I love that movie). And I don't even mind it being a dark movie that butts up against the light and sparkly ANH. And yes, I like all the visuals too. The director had a really great eye for giving everything the proper scale and a great perspective to show you that scale. But for me it just boiled down to not being able to engage with the characters. And if I can't do that, then all the pretty pictures and effects don't really mean anything to me. Even K2S0 I didn't find that funny, which surprised me because I love Alan Tudyk.
 
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Thoughtful analysis guys...

I also crave simple escapist films more and more here days.

I have loved all the be SW for that reason, although RO does feel heavy to me because of the ending. It’s pretty dark. I did connect with the characters though.

While I loved BR2049, it’s not a flick I can watch too often, because it’s mostly sad and bleak.

I loved ExMachina also, but it’s so twisted I doubt I can watch it again.

While Valerian, which is pretty weak on story, it’s beautiful to look at and enjoy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Yeah, I get all of that and like I said before, I like it in theory. I like plenty of slow, dark and somber movies (does Blade Runner 2049 count as that? because I love that movie). And I don't even mind it being a dark movie that butts up against the light and sparkly ANH. And yes, I like all the visuals too. The director had a really great eye for giving everything the proper scale and a great perspective to show you that scale. But for me it just boiled down to not being able to engage with the characters. And if I can't do that, then all the pretty pictures and effects don't really mean anything to me. Even K2S0 I didn't find that funny, which surprised me because I love Alan Tudyk.

Yeah, I guess I've gotten used to - via the PT - to latching onto bits that "feel" SW and being satisfied with those in the abstract. The PT never engaged me on a character/story level - other than a few parts with Palps - but there are segments I enjoy. For example, the Jango/Ewan rainy battle in AOTC, an otherwise unwatchable movie for me. And I don't like TPM, but there is a certain nostalgia I feel in watching the TPM teaser trailer.

And yeah, K2SO as a more sardonic 3PO was fun in a few places, but he didn't emerge as a classic SW character for me, even though I like the design and general vibe of the character (though his level of technology - a running humanoid - makes zero sense compared to OT robots that follow, but RO has a lot of elements that undermine the OT that I've chosen to ignore.)

Thoughtful analysis guys...

I also crave simple escapist films more and more here days.

I have loved all the be SW for that reason, although RO does feel heavy to me because of the ending. It’s pretty dark. I did connect with the characters though.

While I loved BR2049, it’s not a flick I can watch too often, because it’s mostly sad and bleak.

I loved ExMachina also, but it’s so twisted I doubt I can watch it again.


While Valerian, which is pretty weak on story, it’s beautiful to look at and enjoy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ha - was just saying (arguing) the same to my wife. They're amazing well done films but yeah, sad/bleak/twisted is apt.

Even as dark as BR '82 is, I can enjoy that film over and over.

It's an interesting idea - that we need simple escapist films right now. Which is ironic, given that's why SW was such a phenomenon in 1977 in an era of pretty dark and bleak events. Funny they would take it dark and bleak (or in the case of the ST, navel-gazing and kinda cynical) today.
 
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Go easy on me, guys... I'm just a fellow freak with too much time on his hands trying to figure it all out...

An essay...

I reckon many of us here of a certain age have similar stories to tell about how Star Wars came into our lives...

I was 5 in '77, and London was a particularly bleak place back then... My Dad actually wouldn't take me to see it because it was "PG" not "U", and I ended up lying to my best mate's parents that he said it was ok for me to go with them...
He was pretty mad at me, but then took me to see it again on re-release and it ended up having the same effect on him as well... Pure joy!!

But it was always dark... The Owen & Beru bake off... Evazan's arm on the Cantina floor... The destruction of Alderaan made so much more impactful by the scene between Tarkin and Leia on the Death Star... The death of Obi-Wan...
It felt like I was seeing something way beyond my experience at that age and it changed everything... It gave me my moral compass... A clear delineation between good and evil... From then on, my answer to any challenge was "What would Luke do? What would Han do?"...
But as Tali says, that darkness was perfectly balanced by the sheer "jubilation" of it all...

By the time ESB came round, I had a couple more years under my belt, and the blurring of that line between light and dark was a little easier to understand...
Before I even made it to the cinema in 1980, the original poster for ESB implied a darkness that I could never have expected...
Within the first 15 minutes, another lost limb (Wampa)... Lando's betrayal... Carbonite... "I am your father"... The truly brutal severing of Luke's hand...

But the context of this universe came with Dagobah and Yoda... That simple and beautiful explanation of the "Force" made perfect sense to me then and still does now...
As an atheist from a family of atheists, Yoda gave me all I needed for life... My ongoing interest in Philosophy, Astronomy, Cosmology, have all given me a "context" for our own universe and my place in it, and it all started with that little green weirdo...
Good and evil were only ever choices made within a much larger world...

In some ways, ROTJ was the icing on that cake... More boundless joy, but in hindsight, maybe the mysteries of the Force were slightly put aside in favour of a satisfying resolution between the good/evil paradigm...
The darkness and conflict were still there, and Luke's internal battle was riveting, but the Emperor was never that scary, more a caricature of the Dark side, and the Ewoks were just a little too much fun, so there was never really any doubt as to which side would win...
But in all fairness, at the end of ROTJ, Luke wasn't exactly fist-pumping their victory... He was already a pretty sombre figure as he cremated Dad and it always felt like he was still having that internal battle as the credits rolled...
If his story were to continue, the idea that that very internal struggle would eventually defeat him would surely be an opportunity not to be missed, right???
We'll get back to that later...

You still with me guys?

I was stoned through the prequels and frankly far more interested in getting laid than galaxy-hopping...
I saw TPM with a bunch of mates and we all thought we were far too cool for school and Star Wars was now strictly just for kids...
I never bothered to go and see AOTC or ROTS in the cinema, mine and my peers cynicism getting the better of us...
I never got into the wider universe either, so Star Wars for me was now really just a box of melted action figures and a broken AT-AT under my bed... But that box still travelled with me wherever I went...

My outrage at the "Special Editions" was as palpable as the rest of us, but when I finally caught up with Eps II & III, I remember being quite taken aback by the sheer visceral darkness of ROTS...
It was easier to look past the CGI, dismal dialogue, and politics and be reminded of that essential "conflict" that had been slightly diluted by the fairy-tale ending of ROTJ...
I was hooked again...

I turned 40, and after years of struggling to fit into an increasingly ugly and unfair world around me, I bought the saga box set, and the collecting began...
A lonely hobby that needed constant justification to others until I discovered this glorious forum and the wider Star Wars community that immediately felt like coming back home to a universe that made sense to me...
My therapist has a lot to say on this, but he's not a Star Wars fan, so he can go to hell!!

The anticipation for TFA left me breathless... I wept through every trailer... My delirious excitement completely crushed those instinctive doubts about JJ, Disney, and the cynicism of a wider world that saw Star Wars as irrelevant and an exclusively nerds-only waste-of-time... This movie was going to be an unexpected gift at a time when I really needed to feel that joy again...

And was it?
Of course it was... It pushed all the buttons I needed it to push... Did I fall a little bit in love with Daisy Ridley? Yes... Was I in awe of Adam Driver? Yes... Was that still Han Solo? Yes, at least as much as I needed him to be...
Did things bug me? Of course... BB8, Snoke, Poe, Maz, all left me feeling a little indifferent, but the nostalgia of seeing Han and Leia again and the depth to Rey and Kylo and even Finn more than made up for it...
Was the conflict still there? Yes... Was it dark enough? Ultimately, yes... Han's death was a necessary sacrifice, for him as well as us, the distress was quickly dispelled by the sight of a fierce looking Luke on a cliff... Glorious!!
And so many questions unanswered... Not in 35 years has a 2-year wait seemed so unbearably long...

Wait... Only 1 year until Rogue One? Ok... It seems like just a filler, so I won't get too excited...
But the idea that these guys are going to keep giving me what I want every year from now on can only be welcomed...
And it delivered... My lack of investment in the characters, especially posh-brit Jyn (although Cassian and Krennic made up for her inadequacy), was more than repaid by the Battle of Scarif, the greatest space battle in the history of it all, and the final, desperately intense sight of rebel troopers stumbling to get the plans off the ship while a Vader, so terrifying, redeemed any doubt about how dark the dark side can get...
Whatever anyone says, it was a fan-film made by a fan for fans... Any criticism of it being too dark and gritty seems so odd to me considering I could barely hear the end credit score over the cheering in the cinema...
Pure joy... Again...

But what about the "Force"?
If that benevolent and benign canvas on which this whole mythology is painted is now just reduced to midichlorians, parlour tricks and a quasi-religious "May the Force be with You", does my philosophy for life this past 40 years and my understanding of what holds the universe together now become irrelevant?
Is the Force now a cruel "God", not the actual fabric of space and time, the dark matter I believed it to be?
And is the idea of "balance" alluded to before, now just a metaphor for heaven and hell?

Up until last Christmas last year, I thought I had a pretty good idea what the Force meant to me personally...
It has helped me to make sense of my world and I don't remember giving anyone permission to mess with that...
Now, it seems I'm being forced (no pun intended) out of that comfort zone and challenged to re-evaluate the "faith" I once had...
Some might say that is a good thing, but our galaxy has now become a much scarier place, and I look out of my window every day and see a world never more in need of some sense of harmony...
Is it just the past that has been forgotten, "kill it if you have to", or is it the Force itself that has been killed in the process?

There's some irony that the controversy surrounding "The Last Jedi" seems to be directly as a result of the amazingly bold choice to raise these questions that are at the very core of this mythology...
What is the Force? What is the "balance" in the Force"? Are our heroes really heroes? Where do we put our "faith" now?
That a film-maker should be given the freedom to explore those questions within this almost sacred mythology is incredible, and all kudos to him for making those choices, but was it a genuine intention to bring the story back to it's core philosophy, or in a world drowning in conflicted values, simply a choice to make the franchise more current and mirror the mess of our own galaxy?
I would like to believe in Rian Johnson's sincerity of intent, but it's the delivery of his vision, the failures in story-telling and almost brutal lack of respect for what has meant so much to so many for so long, that has made it so hard for me to embrace this film as I would love to be able to... It's hard to shake the feeling that it's some kind of revenge against everyone that ever bullied him at school!!

In a larger context, it's a brilliant premise, a brilliant evolution of the story, but a far from brilliant film, and fundamentally lacking the joy that balanced the darkness of it's predecessors, leaving it ultimately somehow sterile of any real feeling or romance at all...
Cheap comedy and the unbearably nauseating children on Canto Bight seem to have been the only token efforts to keep the film "fun" amidst a sea of relentless hopelessness, and the genuinely compelling relationship between Rey and Kylo initially promised something exciting and hopeful, but then left Kylo looking petulant and diminished and Rey somehow saint-like and bland... And the choice to place Luke in self-imposed exile did make sense in the larger context given his already apparent inner struggle in ROTJ, but was it really necessary to humiliate him in the process?
The tear-jerking moments between Luke/R2 and Luke/Leia which had me genuinely sobbing, but still felt completely out of place in a movie that is about as bleak as it gets, and with the death of Luke, Han and inevitably Leia, and the relevance of the Force itself being called into question by Yoda himself, what do we have left to believe in?

The arguments around political agendas, gender-issues, etc, all have some merit, but are of little interest to me in the context of what Star Wars means to me personally and I've found it equally confusing and upsetting...
I feel something has been taken away from me, almost as if my identity has been subverted against my will, and I want it back...

But hopefully it won't be too long to wait...
There's no doubt that VIII sets up IX for what could be a massively satisfying and rewarding resolution to all those questions about the true nature of the Force, and I do trust JJ to recognize how important it is to heal the division this chapter has created and bring back that sense of hope and joy that started it all way back in '77... And maybe I'll get my faith back as well...

Until then, I'm going to go and play with my dolls...

:duff
 
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Haydakin Ghost still looks better than that craptacular CGI of Banner in the Hulkbuster suit.
 
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Go easy on me, guys... I'm just a fellow freak with too much time on his hands trying to figure it all out...

An essay...

I reckon many of us here of a certain age have similar stories to tell about how Star Wars came into our lives...

I was 5 in '77, and London was a particularly bleak place back then... My Dad actually wouldn't take me to see it because it was "PG" not "U", and I ended up lying to my best mate's parents that he said it was ok for me to go with them...
He was pretty mad at me, but then took me to see it again on re-release and it ended up having the same effect on him as well... Pure joy!!

But it was always dark... The Owen & Beru bake off... Evazan's arm on the Cantina floor... The destruction of Alderaan made so much more impactful by the scene between Tarkin and Leia on the Death Star... The death of Obi-Wan...
It felt like I was seeing something way beyond my experience at that age and it changed everything... It gave me my moral compass... A clear delineation between good and evil... From then on, my answer to any challenge was "What would Luke do? What would Han do?"...
But as Tali says, that darkness was perfectly balanced by the sheer "jubilation" of it all...

By the time ESB came round, I had a couple more years under my belt, and the blurring of that line between light and dark was a little easier to understand...
Before I even made it to the cinema in 1980, the original poster for ESB implied a darkness that I could never have expected...
Within the first 15 minutes, another lost limb (Wampa)... Lando's betrayal... Carbonite... "I am your father"... The truly brutal severing of Luke's hand...

But the context of this universe came with Dagobah and Yoda... That simple and beautiful explanation of the "Force" made perfect sense to me then and still does now...
As an atheist from a family of atheists, Yoda gave me all I needed for life... My ongoing interest in Philosophy, Astronomy, Cosmology, have all given me a "context" for our own universe and my place in it, and it all started with that little green weirdo...
Good and evil were only ever choices made within a much larger world...

In some ways, ROTJ was the icing on that cake... More boundless joy, but in hindsight, maybe the mysteries of the Force were slightly put aside in favour of a satisfying resolution between the good/evil paradigm...
The darkness and conflict were still there, and Luke's internal battle was riveting, but the Emperor was never that scary, more a caricature of the Dark side, and the Ewoks were just a little too much fun, so there was never really any doubt as to which side would win...
But in all fairness, at the end of ROTJ, Luke wasn't exactly fist-pumping their victory... He was already a pretty sombre figure as he cremated Dad and it always felt like he was still having that internal battle as the credits rolled...
If his story were to continue, the idea that that very internal struggle would eventually defeat him would surely be an opportunity not to be missed, right???
We'll get back to that later...

You still with me guys?

I was stoned through the prequels and frankly far more interested in getting laid than galaxy-hopping...
I saw TPM with a bunch of mates and we all thought we were far too cool for school and Star Wars was now strictly just for kids...
I never bothered to go and see AOTC or ROTS in the cinema, mine and my peers cynicism getting the better of us...
I never got into the wider universe either, so Star Wars for me was now really just a box of melted action figures and a broken AT-AT under my bed... But that box still travelled with me wherever I went...

My outrage at the "Special Editions" was as palpable as the rest of us, but when I finally caught up with Eps II & III, I remember being quite taken aback by the sheer visceral darkness of ROTS...
It was easier to look past the CGI, dismal dialogue, and politics and be reminded of that essential "conflict" that had been slightly diluted by the fairy-tale ending of ROTJ...
I was hooked again...

I turned 40, and after years of struggling to fit into an increasingly ugly and unfair world around me, I bought the saga box set, and the collecting began...
A lonely hobby that needed constant justification to others until I discovered this glorious forum and the wider Star Wars community that immediately felt like coming back home to a universe that made sense to me...
My therapist has a lot to say on this, but he's not a Star Wars fan, so he can go to hell!!

The anticipation for TFA left me breathless... I wept through every trailer... My delirious excitement completely crushed those instinctive doubts about JJ, Disney, and the cynicism of a wider world that saw Star Wars as irrelevant and an exclusively nerds-only waste-of-time... This movie was going to be an unexpected gift at a time when I really needed to feel that joy again...

And was it?
Of course it was... It pushed all the buttons I needed it to push... Did I fall a little bit in love with Daisy Ridley? Yes... Was I in awe of Adam Driver? Yes... Was that still Han Solo? Yes, at least as much as I needed him to be...
Did things bug me? Of course... BB8, Snoke, Poe, Maz, all left me feeling a little indifferent, but the nostalgia of seeing Han and Leia again and the depth to Rey and Kylo and even Finn more than made up for it...
Was the conflict still there? Yes... Was it dark enough? Ultimately, yes... Han's death was a necessary sacrifice, for him as well as us, the distress was quickly dispelled by the sight of a fierce looking Luke on a cliff... Glorious!!
And so many questions unanswered... Not in 35 years has a 2-year wait seemed so unbearably long...

Wait... Only 1 year until Rogue One? Ok... It seems like just a filler, so I won't get too excited...
But the idea that these guys are going to keep giving me what I want every year from now on can only be welcomed...
And it delivered... My lack of investment in the characters, especially posh-brit Jyn (although Cassian and Krennic made up for her inadequacy), was more than repaid by the Battle of Scarif, the greatest space battle in the history of it all, and the final, desperately intense sight of rebel troopers stumbling to get the plans off the ship while a Vader, so terrifying, redeemed any doubt about how dark the dark side can get...
Whatever anyone says, it was a fan-film made by a fan for fans... Any criticism of it being too dark and gritty seems so odd to me considering I could barely hear the end credit score over the cheering in the cinema...
Pure joy... Again...

But what about the "Force"?
If that benevolent and benign canvas on which this whole mythology is painted is now just reduced to midichlorians, parlour tricks and a quasi-religious "May the Force be with You", does my philosophy for life this past 40 years and my understanding of what holds the universe together now become irrelevant?
Is the Force now a cruel "God", not the actual fabric of space and time, the dark matter I believed it to be?
And is the idea of "balance" alluded to before, now just a metaphor for heaven and hell?

Up until last Christmas last year, I thought I had a pretty good idea what the Force meant to me personally...
It has helped me to make sense of my world and I don't remember giving anyone permission to mess with that...
Now, it seems I'm being forced (no pun intended) out of that comfort zone and challenged to re-evaluate the "faith" I once had...
Some might say that is a good thing, but our galaxy has now become a much scarier place, and I look out of my window every day and see a world never more in need of some sense of harmony...
Is it just the past that has been forgotten, "kill it if you have to", or is it the Force itself that has been killed in the process?

There's some irony that the controversy surrounding "The Last Jedi" seems to be directly as a result of the amazingly bold choice to raise these questions that are at the very core of this mythology...
What is the Force? What is the "balance" in the Force"? Are our heroes really heroes? Where do we put our "faith" now?
That a film-maker should be given the freedom to explore those questions within this almost sacred mythology is incredible, and all kudos to him for making those choices, but was it a genuine intention to bring the story back to it's core philosophy, or in a world drowning in conflicted values, simply a choice to make the franchise more current and mirror the mess of our own galaxy?
I would like to believe in Rian Johnson's sincerity of intent, but it's the delivery of his vision, the failures in story-telling and almost brutal lack of respect for what has meant so much to so many for so long, that has made it so hard for me to embrace this film as I would love to be able to... It's hard to shake the feeling that it's some kind of revenge against everyone that ever bullied him at school!!

In a larger context, it's a brilliant premise, a brilliant evolution of the story, but a far from brilliant film, and fundamentally lacking the joy that balanced the darkness of it's predecessors, leaving it ultimately somehow sterile of any real feeling or romance at all...
Cheap comedy and the unbearably nauseating children on Canto Bight seem to have been the only token efforts to keep the film "fun" amidst a sea of relentless hopelessness, and the genuinely compelling relationship between Rey and Kylo initially promised something exciting and hopeful, but then left Kylo looking petulant and diminished and Rey somehow saint-like and bland... And the choice to place Luke in self-imposed exile did make sense in the larger context given his already apparent inner struggle in ROTJ, but was it really necessary to humiliate him in the process?
The tear-jerking moments between Luke/R2 and Luke/Leia which had me genuinely sobbing, but still felt completely out of place in a movie that is about as bleak as it gets, and with the death of Luke, Han and inevitably Leia, and the relevance of the Force itself being called into question by Yoda himself, what do we have left to believe in?

The arguments around political agendas, gender-issues, etc, all have some merit, but are of little interest to me in the context of what Star Wars means to me personally and I've found it equally confusing and upsetting...
I feel something has been taken away from me, almost as if my identity has been subverted against my will, and I want it back...

But hopefully it won't be too long to wait...
There's no doubt that VIII sets up IX for what could be a massively satisfying and rewarding resolution to all those questions about the true nature of the Force, and I do trust JJ to recognize how important it is to heal the division this chapter has created and bring back that sense of hope and joy that started it all way back in '77... And maybe I'll get my faith back as well...

Until then, I'm going to go and play with my dolls...

:duff
35c.jpg
 
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Thanks for that great insight, monkeyjedi! I appreciate reading your thoughts on TLJ and the SW universe. There is one thing that stood out to me and it's not the first time I've heard it on this board:

And the choice to place Luke in self-imposed exile did make sense in the larger context given his already apparent inner struggle in ROTJ, but was it really necessary to humiliate him in the process?

This I simply do not understand in the least. I've watched the movie 3 times so far, and I really do not see Luke or his character as humiliated at all. I think the movie gave the character complexity and depth, and a great arc, particularly for an older character which you really don't see too often. Such dramatic arcs are usually saved for the young star or central character of the movie. The place where he was (emotionally and physically) made perfect sense to me and helped me sympathize with him and care what happened to him. I actually think he got a much richer character profile than Han did (and even though Han is my favorite character, I'm ultimately ok with how they handled his character).
 
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Wait -- and this was not more satisfying than Star Wars?

Good point...

1401x788-inherent18-AM.jpg



But what do the laser eyes mean????? I see it all the time... I just don't understand!! :gah:


Thanks for that great insight, monkeyjedi! I appreciate reading your thoughts on TLJ and the SW universe. There is one thing that stood out to me and it's not the first time I've heard it on this board:

This I simply do not understand in the least. I've watched the movie 3 times so far, and I really do not see Luke or his character as humiliated at all. I think the movie gave the character complexity and depth, and a great arc, particularly for an older character which you really don't see too often. Such dramatic arcs are usually saved for the young star or central character of the movie. The place where he was (emotionally and physically) made perfect sense to me and helped me sympathize with him and care what happened to him. I actually think he got a much richer character profile than Han did (and even though Han is my favorite character, I'm ultimately ok with how they handled his character).

Thanks again, Lu... And for the rep!!

I completely agree that Luke's arc was a good choice and made perfect sense...
But it was the extent of his curmudgeonliness, his disdain for his own past, his initial lack of compassion for Rey, and subsequent scared old man reaction to her power that just didn't fit with the courage and compassion we know to be what Luke Skywalker is all about...
The discarding of his father's lightsaber, the sea cow milking and the confused repeating of the scene in the hut with Ben Solo just unnecessarily sought to reinforce that picture of a pathetic, broken old man which was just too hard to swallow even though the arc made sense...
The subsequent press conferences and interviews with a clearly distraught Mark Hamill just made it even more unbearable to see such an overtly "broken" Luke as well as a heartbroken Hamill...
I still can't make my mind up whether the choice to Force-Skype himself into the fight was ultimately cowardice or a more profound self-sacrifice just like Obi-Wan?
No matter how depressed he was, why not at least be there beside your sister in the flesh and go out in a blaze of glory?
I honestly still can't resolve that choice, no matter how glorious it was to see him face off with Kylo and the walkers, only to then die simply buying the rebels some time to escape, just left me feeling as if the most important character in this whole galaxy just wasn't being given the opportunity to redeem himself...
Without hesitation, Luke was always all about saving his friends, and no matter what else happened in between, why would that change?
 
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

I never saw Luke as “pathetic” in TLJ at all.

I saw him as someone who had a traumatic life, and decided for himself that the game was not worth playing.

His connection with the Force seemed stronger than every once he let it in.

It takes a much stronger person to realize your influence might be making something much worse, than to charge in and try to fix everything yourself....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

I never saw Luke as “pathetic” in TLJ at all.

I saw him as someone who had a traumatic life, and decided for himself that the game was not worth playing.

His connection with the Force seemed stronger than every once he let it in.

It takes a much stronger person to realize your influence might be making something much worse, than to charge in and try to fix everything yourself....


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agree "pathetic" might be a bit harsh... I guess I meant overly bitter and/or jaded with it all to such an extent as to shut himself off from the force completely...

But no matter how much trauma, wouldn't deciding that the game just ain't worth playing be a selfish choice the Luke we knew would never make?
 
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

I wonder how things might have played out had Kennedy taken a more MCU-ish approach to the Saga. Instead of an entire *galaxy* that features ONE BIG BAD GUY and ONE GROUP OF BRAVE FREEDOM FIGHTERS they could have just had any number of compartmentalized planetary or even system-wide threats.

That way Luke could have been more of an "Odin" type character. A badass off on some world who is more of an overseer/administrator (of the new Jedi Order) that the lesser heroes sometimes cross paths with or seek help from. He could lay the smack down here or there from time to time but otherwise would be removed from the conflicts of the younger folks that LFL wanted to focus on.

I really enjoyed TFA and TLJ obviously but I definitely recognize that they severely limited themselves by putting every single egg of the current narrative right back into the Empire/Rebellion basket.
 
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

I really enjoyed TFA and TLJ obviously but I definitely recognize that they severely limited themselves by putting every single egg of the current narrative right back into the Empire/Rebellion basket.

Young fool, only now, at the end do you understand

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I do like your ideas though ...
 
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Young fool, only now, at the end do you understand

Nah I've questioned the Empire/Rebellion rehash from the beginning. ;)

It's just magnified in light of Infinity War. I mean surely Marvel won't follow up the Thanos threat with *another* badass titan searching out the glove and trying to snuff out trillions right? But that's exactly what LFL has done with Star Wars.
 
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Breaking News title for IW2 has been revealed:

”Warlock Infinity Battle”
 
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Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Maybe I've been being a bit thick all these years...

In the PT, the Jedi believe Anakin to be "The Chosen One" prophesied to finally bring balance to the Force... Obviously they were wrong...

Clearly Luke was never the Chosen One either, and in ESB, Yoda says "There is another"... But he didn't mean Leia...

Is it Rey?

Is it Kylo?

Will IX finally fulfil Lucas' original vision?
 
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Maybe I've been being a bit thick all these years...

In the PT, the Jedi believe Anakin to be "The Chosen One" prophesied to finally bring balance to the Force... Obviously they were wrong...

Clearly Luke was never the Chosen One either, and in ESB, Yoda says "There is another"... But he didn't mean Leia...

Is it Rey?

Is it Kylo?

Will IX finally fulfil Lucas' original vision?

Well if you want the "true" answer it's that in 1980 Yoda was referring to Luke's as yet unrevealed twin sister who was off on another planet somewhere. Luke would defeat Vader in ROTJ and then he and his sister would join forces to take down the Emperor in Episodes 7,8, and 9. But while planning ROTJ George just got burned out and decided to end the whole Saga. So he made Leia the sister, had both Vader and the Emperor die and called it a day.

Then he retconned the Saga to be all about Anakin when he went back and made the prequels since in his mind there was no more story left to tell after Jedi. Which of course changed *again* when he hired Michael Arndt to start writing a script based on new ideas he had for the Sequel Trilogy prior to selling the entire IP off to Disney.
 
Re: Star Wars: Episode IX - December 20, 2019

Maybe I've been being a bit thick all these years...

In the PT, the Jedi believe Anakin to be "The Chosen One" prophesied to finally bring balance to the Force... Obviously they were wrong...

Will IX finally fulfil Lucas' original vision?

I think Anakin still was the chosen one... it was still ultimately him who brought ‘peace to the galaxy,’ just not in the way anyone thought. (Of course ‘peace’ only works if you ignore the retcon the ST did to RotJ’s ending)

I don’t feel IX will fulfil Lucas’ vision as it’s clear he was heading in a different direction from the few snippets we know of.
 
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