TPM- The sixth best SW Movie shown some love

[automaton]

"I actually think AOTC is the sixth best movie"

i hear that!

 

[piccolodaimaoh]

The CGI debate is one of fashion. The other side of which is that some people prefer CGI to the old, some would say crappy, f/x of the 70s/80s.

I agree CGI is visually better than say stop motion or matte paintings but what I always appreciate about the old special effects is that they were real. I am a big Ray Harryhausen fan and what I love is that no matter how big or small they are they were real, made by hand and posed. The creatures in Jason and the Argonauts and the 7th Voyage of Sinbad did exist just as highly detailed and poseable puppets. To that matter, the ships in the OT were real, the Rancor was real, not just a program in a computer.
I know I am not explaining myself that well but I hope you get my point.

Oh, and AOTC is better than TPM in my opinion. Much better villains.

 

[gdb]

I get your point. In fact that's what I mean by fashion. People who grew up with miniatures in front of green screens have a fondness for those styles. Kids growing up on CGI don't have such appreciation for them. Just like I have no problem listening to 80s music, but when I turn on the radio it's hip hop and pop because that's what's in fashion right now. For me to argue with the kids these days that their music isn't as good as what I grew up on or that they don't make pop culture the way they used to is an exercise in futility. It's a matter of fashion.

 

[Stendec]

Liam Neeson was a revelation in TPM, he played the role of a Jedi Knight to perfection. The lightsaber duels were also unlike anything seen before in Star Wars

 

[Rogue Trooper]

Remember the trailer, when i see it now i still get the feeling of this is going to be great and for me it was, it was on TV last week and seeing my little sister constantly laugh at jar-jar and want to be the queen show that george knows what he was doing.

Great bits

Trailer "Wipe them out, All of them" "NOOO!" love it

Republic Cruiser, a great OT ship for me and its red.

Invasion, wow a driod army and some music to go with.

Otah Gunga, not enough of this amazing place.

Jedi, there badass and really know how to fight.

Darth Maul, enough said and ssc has done hi justice.

Pod race, something new to star wars and great enough to be in the live action tv show.

Coruscant, looked geat, even though it looks amazing in ROTS.


I kind of think it was a shame so much went on in Tatoonine, made it look like it was not the ass end of the galaxy.

 

[darthCipan]

Almost forgot - one of my all time Qui-Gon quotes:

Jar-Jar Binks: Ooh moi moi I love you!
Qui-Gon Jinn: You almost got us killed! Are you brainless?
Jar-Jar Binks: I speck!
Qui-Gon Jinn: The ability to speak does not make you intelligent. Now get out of here.

I remember that quote. Poor Jar Jar

 

[icruise]

Liam Neeson was a revelation in TPM, he played the role of a Jedi Knight to perfection. The lightsaber duels were also unlike anything seen before in Star Wars

True. If you go back and look at, say, the duel between Obi-wan and Darth Vader, it looks pretty silly by comparison.

 

[piccolodaimaoh]

True. If you go back and look at, say, the duel between Obi-wan and Darth Vader, it looks pretty silly by comparison.

In 20/20 hind sight everything looks different and compared to all the flips and acrobatics done by Ray Park, McGregor, Neeson, Yoda and yes Christopher Lee the Guinness light saber duel is lacking. But the thing with the original duel in New Hope is that it is all real people doing the stunts, no CG and a few stunt doubles.
Yes the newer fights look better but nothing compares to that first fight for me between Obi-Wan and Vader. There was no gray line, it was absolute good vs. absolute evil with all of the mystique and granduer you could want. Vader, the large powerful dark force versus the immovable object of Kenobi. The banter between the 2 was pure poetry with Alec Guinness spouting some of the corniest lines ever but giving them class and weight. When I watch New Hope today I still believe for an instant that Obi-Wan is going to beat Vader in the duel.
I apologize, I am coming back to Earth and getting off my soap box now.

 

[icruise]

Oh, it's a great scene of course, but from a purely action-oriented standpoint it's just two guys kind of hitting two sticks together.

 

[piccolodaimaoh]

Oh, it's a great scene of course, but from a purely action-oriented standpoint it's just two guys kind of hitting two sticks together.

You are right and I can't argue with that but it is all the extra tension and build up and dialogue and the way that Obi-Wan dies that makes the scene so special. Like our favorite ogre, this fight has layers.
The fact that it is 2 actual people also scores points for me.

 

[Memnoch]

Ben vs Vader in ANH was never about action and all about subtext. It's the clashing of an aged master and scarred former student. The amount of trash talk Obi Wan throws Vaders way is fantastic. Ben isn't there to defeat Vader, he is there to sacrifice himself for Luke. The OT doesn't need to be all Jedi-rific because out of the 3 duels we see NONE are of the type we see in the PT. ANH is Ben's sacrifice to set Luke on the Jedi path, in ESB Vader wants to swing Luke to the Dark Side as his apprentice, in ROTJ Luke is trying to bring the little bit of Anakin back from the Dark Side but not kill him.

 

[piccolodaimaoh]

Ben vs Vader in ANH was never about action and all about subtext. It's the clashing of an aged master and scarred former student. The amount of trash talk Obi Wan throws Vaders way is fantastic. Ben isn't there to defeat Vader, he is there to sacrifice himself for Luke. The OT doesn't need to be all Jedi-rific because out of the 3 duels we see NONE are of the type we see in the PT. ANH is Ben's sacrifice to set Luke on the Jedi path, in ESB Vader wants to swing Luke to the Dark Side as his apprentice, in ROTJ Luke is trying to bring the little bit of Anakin back from the Dark Side but not kill him.

Couldn't have said it better myself. You are right on target.

 

[pickard]

I agree completely with Neil's initial post.

Dismissing The Phantom Menace means dismissing Neeson's great portrayal of Master Qui-Gon, and that should not be done

TPM is not my favorite of the saga, but it has moments (many listed by Neil) which rival or surpass the best of the other films.

 

[KitFisto]

Ben vs Vader in ANH was never about action and all about subtext. It's the clashing of an aged master and scarred former student. The amount of trash talk Obi Wan throws Vaders way is fantastic. Ben isn't there to defeat Vader, he is there to sacrifice himself for Luke. The OT doesn't need to be all Jedi-rific because out of the 3 duels we see NONE are of the type we see in the PT. ANH is Ben's sacrifice to set Luke on the Jedi path, in ESB Vader wants to swing Luke to the Dark Side as his apprentice, in ROTJ Luke is trying to bring the little bit of Anakin back from the Dark Side but not kill him.

Perfectly said. I really missed the dialog in the PT fights to be honest. I really thought we would have a lot in ROTS between Obi-Wan and Anakin, but we didn't even get very much between them. What we did get was limited and only average IMO.

Don't get me wrong, I love the action and fun of the PT saber battles, but I also love the MEANING and dialog of the OT battles.

 

[King Darkness]

Ben vs Vader in ANH was never about action and all about subtext. It's the clashing of an aged master and scarred former student. The amount of trash talk Obi Wan throws Vaders way is fantastic. Ben isn't there to defeat Vader, he is there to sacrifice himself for Luke. The OT doesn't need to be all Jedi-rific because out of the 3 duels we see NONE are of the type we see in the PT. ANH is Ben's sacrifice to set Luke on the Jedi path, in ESB Vader wants to swing Luke to the Dark Side as his apprentice, in ROTJ Luke is trying to bring the little bit of Anakin back from the Dark Side but not kill him.

110% prefectly said! Well done.

 

[Blackhole]

As George Lucas said...it's two old men fighting...

The OT doesn't have any young people battles...

Well, there is Luke, but he's inexperienced...

THEN AGAIN...those saber battles were still awesome...

Especially ROTJ...I love that...just brilliant...

 

[TheObsoleteMan]

Whatever reasons Lucas comes up with in hindsight, the Ben/Vader duel was obviously designed to be a classic samurai style duel with the very formal two-handed style of combat. It may not be the most exciting fight scene, but it does give it a unique sense of nobility that's lacking in the other duels.

 

[pfronz]

Maybe it was all the hype and excitement leading up to its release but I really enjoyed TPM each of the 6 times I saw it in the theater. I was a freshman in high school that year so I was still kind of transitioning out of the "kid" stage (still haven't really completed that transition). The lightsaber battles, the podrace, the horrible deaths of the astromech droids on the Queen's starship... all awesome to me at 14. Way better than AOTC IMHO. I'd love to see SideShow put out some 1/6 battle droids, destroyer droids and pit droids. Ki Adi Mundi is a must-have for me as well, and Graxxol Kelvyyn w/ Shakka would be great though not likely to happen.


BTW, John Williams' theme for little Anakin that dissolves into Vader's theme at the end was pure brilliance. I really wish that it would have shown up in AOTC and ROTS also, especially somewhere in his conversion to Vader. That would have been very powerful. I personally felt that the scores for AOTC and ROTS (except for a few high points in ROTS) were not as heart-felt as TPM's or the OT's.

 

[DarthNeil]

I agree completely with Neil's initial post.

Dismissing The Phantom Menace means dismissing Neeson's great portrayal of Master Qui-Gon, and that should not be done

TPM is not my favorite of the saga, but it has moments (many listed by Neil) which rival or surpass the best of the other films.

Thanks.

Well I finished watching TPM with my new surround sound system and I've happily moved on to AOTC... Watch for thread entitled:

AOTC- The sixth best SW Movie shown some love

Nice to see the positive comments and analysis of films that obviously the majority of us enjoyed--- it's a welcome change from the neverending bashing that flows too easily over the net.

 

[Blackhole]

It's not a bad film...It's just my least favourite...