Vice Presidential Debate Tonight - Biden vs. Palin.... DING, DING, DING

[LChinoz]

Oh and I think Bush senior was a really good president. I am not a liberal by any means.

 

[Mesa]

Yea, he did a great job otherwise though...

Bush sux, I agree. But I do not believe he played a big role in the the current economic crisis. The other failures he's contiributed to will be his legacy, but it shouldn't include this economic one.

 

[LChinoz]

Bush sux, I agree. But I do not believe he played a big role in the the current economic crisis. The other failures he's contiributed to will be his legacy, but it shouldn't include this economic one.

Cool good to know you agree. Did you vote for him in either 2000 or 2004 (if you don't mind me asking?) I know people's votes are sometimes personal so please do not feel obigated to tell me or post it on the forum. I am just curious, I have met many people who voted for him that admit he has not done a good job.

 

[Darklord Dave]

You can call it that, but it's simple economics. A higher minimum wage means more job cuts, higher cost of product, and even increases the number of school drop outs and future earning potential of employees.

The vast majority of individuals on minimum wage are still living at home with their parents.

Having worked in management in the service industry at a time when minimum wage was constantly climbing I never saw this happen. We just raised prices. Of course, we also raised prices when the minimum wage didn't go up.

 

[LordAzrael]

Having worked in management in the service industry at a time when minimum wage was constantly climbing I never saw this happen. We just raised prices. Of course, we also raised prices when the minimum wage didn't go up.

Higher wages tend not to mean JOB CUTS - but rather they hinder JOB GROWTH. So its good for people in low paying jobs who have them but bad for the unemployed as it means that employers are less likely to put them on. its also worth noting that the labor market is far from perfectly elastic (i.e. there is a fair bit of give either way before you see job gains or losses) due to the ability to expand capacity through overtime and the problems around downsizing staff.

In fundamental market terms anything is worth what a willing buyer and seller will transact at. Where you make a purchaser pay more than that "market" rate their will be some purchasers who choose not to buy. Its important to remember all the supply and demand curves you cover in university economics are the aggregate of all the individual purchasers and suppliers in the market - there will always be individual purchasers and suppliers who are above and below the average - hence why you see something goes for ridiculous prices on ebay where supply is extremely limited - it only takes one idiot willing to pay double the going rate to make the transaction happen.

 

[LordAzrael]

Biden will certainly direct Obama on International Diplomacy.

Ah good. Maybe when we kick Hezbollah out of Lebanon again we won't make the mistake of letting them back in. Remind me when that was again Joe ?

Oh thats right - it never happened. :maul

 

[Mesa]

Cool good to know you agree. Did you vote for him in either 2000 or 2004 (if you don't mind me asking?) I know people's votes are sometimes personal so please do not feel obigated to tell me or post it on the forum. I am just curious, I have met many people who voted for him that admit he has not done a good job.

Yes, both times. Looking back, his 2nd term vote was a mistake, but I couldn't support Kerry, that condescending ^^^^^

 

[customizerwannabe]

Well, I was going to stay out of this, but since you want to take it to this level...

Is the American health care system perfect? No, far from it. But that doesn't mean the knee-jerk reaction of socialism is the answer, either.

In the US, we already have socialism-based private "health maintenance organizations" in place. They aren't government funded, but they work basically the same way. By paying your regular membership fees, you get "complete" coverage, with no deductibles, no co-payments... And almost no real care.

When I was younger, I enrolled my family in one such system (Kaiser-Permanente). For skinned knees, broken arms, runny noses, and routine prenatal care, it worked great. Then my wife got sick. REALLY sick. But the doctors at the HMO kept refusing to administer the correct tests, because they cost too much, and didn't fit in their testing budget. So they took pot shots at trying to diagnose her problem, and the failed. Miserably. Luckily, I was given a chance to opt out of that system and enroll in a regular insurance program and find a regular family doctor, who tested for, and correctly diagnosed, several cancerous cysts in her uterus. Unfortunately, because of the length of time it took to get the right treatment, she was forced to have a hysterectomy. Had we stayed with the HMO, she would likely be dead.

So please, DON'T try to tell me that socialized medicine is better. It's not. Nothing anyone says will ever make me believe otherwise.

Well put. It is absolutely NOT better. I work with several Canadian nurses who pay to take our healthcare benefits because of the wait for services in Windsor. I have no problem with tapping the top 5% earners as Obama wants to and cutting tax breaks to industries, but when he's trying to give us socialist medicine to go with our new socialist mortgage system he drops me off the cart.

 

[Spartan Rex]

He was better choice than the dem alternatives but he's blown it pretty bad in his 2nd term.

 

[devilof76]

He was better choice than the dem alternatives but he's blown it pretty bad in his 2nd term.

I agree that he was a better alternative than Gore, but I think he blew it in his first term. It just took until the second term to see how badly he blew it.

The fact that he was weak with China when the spy plane went down, that he let Sarbanes-Oxley through, that he compromised on his corporate tax cuts, and that he half-*ssed the elimination of state sponsors of Islamist terrorism, all convinced me that he was not worth the paper he was printed on by the end of his first year.

I'm not convinced that he was a better alternative than Kerry. Better to be a zero than the wrong number.

 

[RoboDad]

He was better choice than the dem alternatives but he's blown it pretty bad in his 2nd term.

That is my thought as well. I voted for Bush in the first term because I believed (and still believe) that he was the best candidate for the job at that time. There is no way I could ever have stomached an Al Gore presidency. In 2004, I voted for him again, in part because Kerry was such a pathetic alternative, and in part because, at that time, it seemed like a bad idea to change the CiC unnecessarily in the midst of an armed conflict.

Looking back, would I still have voted for him over Kerry in '04? I don't know. Bush has made some pretty bad blunders in his second term, but Kerry is still, well, Kerry. I suppose, on some level, it might have been interesting to see Kerry blunder his way through the presidency, but in all honesty, I don't think we would have been much better off today under his governance than we are in most ways (certainly not with regard to the "financial crisis"), and in some ways things might have been worse.

 

[customizerwannabe]

I'm curious to see how badly Obama screws up in the White House. I'll be very surprised if he isn't elected. McCain pulled up the stakes on my state of MI. He has an uphill battle. Needs most of the swing states. On a personal note...a VP who could easily get a gig in Playboy is such a hot idea.

 

[Bannister]

On a personal note...a VP who could easily get a gig in Playboy is such a hot idea.

Tell me about it:

 

[customizerwannabe]

Well well. Learn something new about a fella every day I guess.

 

[The Ween]

I'm curious to see how badly Obama screws up in the White House. I'll be very surprised if he isn't elected. McCain pulled up the stakes on my state of MI. He has an uphill battle. Needs most of the swing states. On a personal note...a VP who could easily get a gig in Playboy is such a hot idea.

Playboy?

I don't think so.

 

[The Ween]

Tell me about it:

I love your sense of humor!!

 

[monkeydad16]

I trust Obama and what he says he wants to do. When I read or hear what he wants to do I think that has potential. I hear him speak and I feel like there just might be hope this country can actually get back on track and do what it should have been doing all along.

Michelle Obama is a Sideshow Freak? Who knew?

 

[Fubeca]

I love your sense of humor!!

Actually you don't know Bannister! He's not kidding!

 

[DarkArtist81]

I'm just peeking into this thread to see if it still sucks...

Yep. Still sucks.

Here is a funny clip I found... Enjoy.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="https://www.youtube.com/v/iZsO7dZ__iw&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="https://www.youtube.com/v/iZsO7dZ__iw&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

 

[OSCORP]

Remember a vote for Mccain/Palin means you support Elisabeth Hasselbeck's views. Now ask yourself if you can live with that.