Who had the upper hand, Mace or Palpatine?

[pixletwin]

Cyborg Vader came up from behind Palpy and chucked him into a pit. That can HARDLY be considered "defeating" him.

As for the chosen one business; Yoda says in the novel of RoTS that the sith evolved and changed over time while the Jedi didn't, and thus the Jedi were unprepared to counter the Sith. And bringing "balance" was just misintrepreted by not meaning killing all jedi so that there were only a couple left (yoda, luke, vader, palpy). But that in itself is wrong, there were tons of Jedi that survived the great jedi purge, but I digress (little plot hole my lucas, but I can forgive it)

Dead is dead. Vader killed palpy. You can dress it anyway you want, but Vader picked the little guy up and tossed his dwarf ass and there was nothing Palps could do to stop it.

THEREFOR (again) Vader (Cyber Vader at that) was more powerful than Palps.

 

[pixletwin]

Vaapad is one of the worst contributions made by the EU to the SW Universe. A Jedi using the Dark Side? Let me see. Do you mean a Sith right? On top of everything else, Vaapad doesn´t even exist in the movies, Nick Gillard confirmed that time ago.

Yoda said once you tread the path of the darkside it will dominate your destiny. I would say that would be true for Mace.

 

[Darthrazz]

Didn't Luke use a Force Choke in ROTJ. Is that considered a dark Side power?

 

[pixletwin]

Didn't Luke use a Force Choke in ROTJ. Is that considered a dark Side power?

I don't think he killed the poor piggy though.

 

[lerath666]

Ok... Light side powers.. dark side powers, the "force choke" is just telekenesis. it's no different , fundamentaly than lifting rocks, or raising the x-wing from the swamp.

If you follow the EU ( and I do) there is a great amount of detail on the force. there realy is no difference in "light side " and "dark side powers" with a few exceptions, it all comes down to how you use it.

( for thge record, the only two, definite Dark side powers, according to the eu are Force lighting, and injure/kill, and no, injure/kill IS NOT FORCE CHOKE)

 

[lerath666]

An example, if you use a gun to kill , it does not make the gun or you evil, it is HOW it was used. if you mercilously killed an innocent, then it was an act of evil.

Transverslely if you used the gun to stop someone from killing an innocent, then it is an act of good. the fundamentals are the same, but the motivation and action itself defines weither it was good or evil, light or dark, simply put, how it was used.

 

[Outer_Rim]

Yoda said once you tread the path of the darkside it will dominate your destiny. I would say that would be true for Mace.

And this is exactly the problem with Vaapad. If a Jedi keeps using the Dark Side that means he is no longer a Jedi. Mace developed Vaapad before EPII events, therefore, he should be a Sith or an exiled Dark Jedi no much longer than that.

 

[bagelsncheesey]

Vaapad is one of the worst contributions made by the EU to the SW Universe. A Jedi using the Dark Side? Let me see. Do you mean a Sith right? On top of everything else, Vaapad doesn´t even exist in the movies, Nick Gillard confirmed that time ago.

Doesn't matter to me. The question was Mace or Palpy. And I said Mace. I think my reasons make sense. EU, non-movies, whatever. Mace is still Mace.

 

[Anzik]

I just heard from the guys that believe Boba Fett survived the Sarlacc, Darth Maul has a cybernetic lower body, and Elvis is still alive and they say that Mace survived his fall, but lost his memory. He secretly snuck into Death Star II. Palpatine landed on a ledge before hitting the reactor core where Mace was waiting for him. They finished their duel with Mace decisively kicking the ass of old scrotum face before force pushing him into the reactor.

The DSII blew up killing Mace, but his spirit came back at the end of Episode VI. You just can't see him because his severed hand fell off again and he bent over to pick it up.

 

[lerath666]

Doesn't matter to me. The question was Mace or Palpy. And I said Mace. I think my reasons make sense. EU, non-movies, whatever. Mace is still Mace.

and what, exacty is your reason, comeone mate, back up your reasonsing, i'm currious why you think that.

and LOL at anzik's post.

 

[pixletwin]

I just heard from the guys that believe Boba Fett survived the Sarlacc, Darth Maul has a cybernetic lower body, and Elvis is still alive and they say that Mace survived his fall, but lost his memory. He secretly snuck into Death Star II. Palpatine landed on a ledge before hitting the reactor core where Mace was waiting for him. They finished their duel with Mace decisively kicking the ass of old scrotum face before force pushing him into the reactor.

The DSII blew up killing Mace, but his spirit came back at the end of Episode VI. You just can't see him because his severed hand fell off again and he bent over to pick it up.

 

[Agent0028]

I don't think Vaapad actually uses the dark side so much as it uses emotions such as anger, which Jedi viewed as tapping in to the dark side.

 

[bagelsncheesey]

and what, exacty is your reason, comeone mate, back up your reasonsing, i'm currious why you think that.

and LOL at anzik's post.

I already backed up my reason in my original post....

Google Vaapad. Dark arts.

Mace was stronger than Palpatine. You think Palpatine was really "toying" with Mace, and just fried himself and became disfigured just for the sake of toying with him?

 

[pixletwin]

I already backed up my reason in my original post....

Google Vaapad. Dark arts.

Mace was stronger than Palpatine. You think Palpatine was really "toying" with Mace, and just fried himself and became disfigured just for the sake of toying with him?

He didn't fry himself. He was already disfigured. The clean look of Palpatine was an illusion of the darkside (much like a Jedi mind trick).

 

[IrishJedi]

He didn't fry himself. He was already disfigured. The clean look of Palpatine was an illusion of the darkside (much like a Jedi mind trick).

I wish that were so, but alas... the disfigurement was real and NOT an illusion.

 

[pixletwin]

I wish that were so, but alas... the disfigurement was real and NOT an illusion.

Quiet Irish. Don't shatter my SW cake of yummyness.

 

[IrishJedi]

Quiet Irish. Don't shatter my SW cake of yummyness.

Sorry dude. But like I said earlier, take it up with Lucas not me. He told Luceno how that went down in their discussions for the "Dark Lord" novel.

 

[bagelsncheesey]

Sorry dude. But like I said earlier, take it up with Lucas not me. He told Luceno how that went down in their discussions for the "Dark Lord" novel.

 

[Anzik]

What frightened me the most about the emperor's appearance in Jedi was he was more wrinkled than the neighbors grandmother that lived next door to me growing up.
Not an easy task.

 

[lerath666]

I already backed up my reason in my original post....

Google Vaapad. Dark arts.

Mace was stronger than Palpatine. You think Palpatine was really "toying" with Mace, and just fried himself and became disfigured just for the sake of toying with him?

here is my problem with that. mace is not one toy "play with his food"
He's a man of action, if he was so much stronger, why did he not simply cut Sidious down earlier? why did he ask for anakin's help when he sowhed up if he did not need it?
also, even if mace is using Vapadd, a dark side style of fighting, he's only playing with it, Sidious has dedicated his entire life to the study of the dark side of the force. he would, therefore have more knowledge of it, in therory, making him stronger in it.

Now, it is estabilshed that mace is one of the greatest jedi swordsmen of all time, but palpatine had no trouble keeping up with him in the fight, untill he was disarmed. Most likely, palpatine cheated, but even then, as we've said, he was a master at adapting to the situation. He drew on the darkside, and kept pace with mace, waiting for the key moment when Anakin would arive.