Who had the upper hand, Mace or Palpatine?

[Customikey]

All that proves is that they weren't as good as swordsmen as Mace. Not to take anything away from Palpatine, he was the consummate risk taker. He controlled as much as he could but when he had to take a chance he didn't hesitate.

They had to be good swordsmen to be on the Council, didn't they?

I suppose Palpatine and Jack Sparrow have that in common. You can't tell how much is planned out and how much is just brilliant improvisation.

I like the idea that Palpatine kept to the shadows until the penultimate moment. He knew he might have to shed some of his own blood to pull off his little coo (sp?) (thank you Lucius), but he didn't waste it frivolously. He let others like Maul and Dooku give generously of their blood.

From the Plagueis (this is the correct spelling) story, I sort of got the impression that Plagueis learned how to create life, but didn't know how to focus it. Like speaking an incantation and never being sure what exactly the effect was. It could be that the Darth sensed that he had done something important, but had no idea where in the universe the Force had decided to center itself to create The Chosen One.

One does wonder how Palpatine got wind that the Jedi thought Anakin was their Chosen One. Did he learn of it from a Jedi or did he himself sense the power in the boy? An educated guess that led Palpatine to keep tabs on Anakin for his entire career as a Jedi. Oh, the questions...

 

[bumblebee]

Mace dominated Palps. The movie dosnt do near as good a job as the book does in telling how Mace was taking it to palps.

 

[EVILFACE]

Mace had it won until Anakin came in with the Foreign Object when the ref wasn't looking allowing Sidious to get the 3 count.

Mace could have saved the galaxy, but . . . .

. . . if you go by the silly prophecy, Anakin was chosen to bring balance to the Force, not Mace.

 

[The Josh]

Mace dominated Palps. The movie dosnt do near as good a job as the book does in telling how Mace was taking it to palps.

The ROTS book does give a bit more depth to the fight but I still think Palps would have won.

 

[bumblebee]

The ROTS book does give a bit more depth to the fight but I still think Palps would have won.

You thinks palps would have won(give how the novel describes the fight) ???? You sure you read the book???

 

[Customikey]

You thinks palps would have won(give how the novel describes the fight) ???? You sure you read the book???

THe thing about Palpatine, at least, if you believe his arguments to anakin about a "larger view," is that I don't think he's a pure Dark Side user. His larger view embraces some aspects of the light as well. That, I think is a reason why he was able to help Anakin stay alive until the stasis pod came. I also can't see how creating life could be considered a dark side trait, as in Plagueis. So, I think the combined powers of Palpatine would eventually dominate the limited light side powers of someone even as powerful as Mace.

 

[Anzik]

They had to be good swordsmen to be on the Council, didn't they?

I suppose Palpatine and Jack Sparrow have that in common. You can't tell how much is planned out and how much is just brilliant improvisation.

I like the idea that Palpatine kept to the shadows until the penultimate moment. He knew he might have to shed some of his own blood to pull off his little coo (sp?) (thank you Lucius), but he didn't waste it frivolously. He let others like Maul and Dooku give generously of their blood.

From the Plagueis (this is the correct spelling) story, I sort of got the impression that Plagueis learned how to create life, but didn't know how to focus it. Like speaking an incantation and never being sure what exactly the effect was. It could be that the Darth sensed that he had done something important, but had no idea where in the universe the Force had decided to center itself to create The Chosen One.

One does wonder how Palpatine got wind that the Jedi thought Anakin was their Chosen One. Did he learn of it from a Jedi or did he himself sense the power in the boy? An educated guess that led Palpatine to keep tabs on Anakin for his entire career as a Jedi. Oh, the questions...

I don't think saber fighting is a requirement for being on the council. Those guys were probably very good at lightsaber fighting but Mace and Palpatine were in a different league. Just like in a graduating class, everyone gets their degree, but not everyone with a degree got there with a 4.0.
Also Anakin wasn't the JEDI'S chosen one, he was the Force' chosen one, meaning he would bring balance to the force. The Jedi thought it meant wiping out the Sith, but they didn't understand their way of interpreting the Force had to go as well.
I like the idea that Palpatine didn't have it all wrapped up. He took chances, and considerable risk. There were no guarantees of success, many times he had to restructure and adapt his plans. This makes his character much more interesting. Anyone can set up cards to knock them down, Palpatine set up the cards and got around the cards defenders by improvising.

 

[The Josh]

You thinks palps would have won(give how the novel describes the fight) ???? You sure you read the book???

Yeah, I read the book and I still think Palps would have one anyways. He's too tricky to just go down like that.

 

[lerath666]

I genuinly like the analagy of Palpatine and Jack sparrow, and I think it fits perfectly.
Yes, in a fair fight, Palpatine would probobly get his ass handed to him by such a competnatnt and gallant swordsman As Mace. But as Jack says, " then there is not much incentive for me to fight fair, is it?"
Take a look at COTBP, Jack and Will are fighting in the smithy, and jack is doing everything he can just to fend off will. Will is clearly the better swordsman, But Jack embraces a "larger world view" When it becomes painfully appearent that he can't win with swords alone, he distracts Will, and draws his pistol. " you cheated" says will, and jack mearly smiles, and says a single word " Pirate ".

The fight between Mace and palpatine is not too disimlar. and becuase he was willing to cheat to win, Palpatine had the upperhand, although it's an unfair one.

 

[bumblebee]

I just dont see how a guy laying on the ground could defeated a Jedi such as Mace(who was standing over him with his lightsaber and was also a master of Vaapad). The novel describs how Mace gave himself over to Vaapad and dominated the fight and when Sidous tried to you sith lightning it was directed back on him(I believe the novel even says the lightning flowed through mace and came back out agian on Sidous. JMO's

 

[lerath666]

Yet, mace died, and Palpatine didn't. He had to take out his "pistol" ( anakin) to do it, but he still won.

Like I said, in a fair fight, Mace would win, but the fight was Never, ever Fair.

 

[bumblebee]

Yeah, I read the book and I still think Palps would have one anyways. He's too tricky to just go down like that.

but he did go down like that....he got bailed out by a cheap shot from anakin

 

[lerath666]

But who's to say he did not Go down like that Intentionaly? Even if mace would have EVENTUALY worn him down if Palpatine let him have his fair fight, Palpatine chose his moment to go down. Besides, if her were not laying prone, at Mace's mercy, odds are Anakin would not have sided with him, wouldn't you say?

 

[lerath666]

but he did go down like that....he got bailed out by a cheap shot from anakin

And i think that was his plan from the begenning. He WANTED anakin to bail him out, Planned and betted on it, knowing anakin inside and out.

 

[bumblebee]

But who's to say he did not Go down like that Intentionaly? Even if mace would have EVENTUALY worn him down if Palpatine let him have his fair fight, Palpatine chose his moment to go down. Besides, if her were not laying prone, at Mace's mercy, odds are Anakin would not have sided with him, wouldn't you say?

So Palps chose to let him cut his light saber in half and knock him to the ground...

 

[bumblebee]

But who's to say he did not Go down like that Intentionaly? Even if mace would have EVENTUALY worn him down if Palpatine let him have his fair fight, Palpatine chose his moment to go down. Besides, if her were not laying prone, at Mace's mercy, odds are Anakin would not have sided with him, wouldn't you say?

I agree Palps played to Anakins emotion but that sure dosnt seem like a solid plan...I mean its a much safer bet to kill all the jedis and then say "see i told you they were gonna try to kill me and take over".

 

[Customikey]

So Palps chose to let him cut his light saber in half and knock him to the ground...

It's kind of like boxing. You need to take a couple of hits to get in under the defenses. Palpatine wasn't disarmed until Anakin was about to enter. He needed to see a completely defenseless old man being bourn down upon by a great menacing Jedi.

And keep in mind, Palpatine did have another lightsaber tucked up under there. I wonder if he knows how to dual wield...

 

[lerath666]

Yes he did let him cut his saber apart. If you're going to use the novel, 9 which is EU) to defend your point, then we can drag the ENTIRE EU into it. If palpatine, as George Lucas said, is one of the two most powerful force useres in EIII, the other being yoda, He could have done Like Master Vodo Baas, in the Knights of the old republic books, and enveloped the hilt in a bubble of force to keep the weapon from getting cut apart.

Even if we look at ONLY the film, Even if he had his weapon damaged on accident, it still played into his hands. Palpatine won the fight Becuase he had the upper hand. The upper hand he had was that he dose not fight fair. He cheats.

 

[lerath666]

It's kind of like boxing. You need to take a couple of hits to get in under the defenses. Palpatine wasn't disarmed until Anakin was about to enter. He needed to see a completely defenseless old man being bourn down upon by a great menacing Jedi.

And keep in mind, Palpatine did have another lightsaber tucked up under there. I wonder if he knows how to dual wield...

Probobly, Like i said a min ago, He Cheats.

 

[The Josh]

but he did go down like that....he got bailed out by a cheap shot from anakin

No, he outsmarted Mace. Like everyone else is saying he used all his weapons to beat Mace.