Who had the upper hand, Mace or Palpatine?

[bumblebee]

Not talking about ROTJ, only ROTS.
By EPVI Palpatine is SOOO sure of himself, and soo certina of his plans, that he makes less plans. he got careless. the same thing that happens to Yagmi Light it Deathnote. He forgets to account for the wildcard. A father's Love for his son.

OK.




And I agree is overconfidence was his down fall(as Luke said)

 

[bumblebee]

I'll say this, if the fight is considered to have been over when Anakin entered, then Yes, Mace won.

But can't you see that Mace wining was most likely part of His plan?

Besides, mace does not get to savor this voctory, as he dies moments later

Yea either way it didnt end up too well for Mace in the end.

 

[bidge1000]

Mace had won the battle, Sidious won the war, it's that simple.
Mace was trained in form 7 lightsaber technique, (look it up, it's badass).
He had Sidious unarmed and beaten before anakin arrived, even his force lightning wasn't doing the job.
His only recourse was Anakins weakness and luckily for him Anakin folded.
Ironic, if he had just let Mace do his thing, he would have saved Padme and the Galaxy.

D

:chew:chew:chew
:emperor:emperor:emperor

 

[bumblebee]

Mace had won the battle, Sidious won the war, it's that simple.
Mace was trained in form 7 lightsaber technique, (look it up, it's badass).
He had Sidious unarmed and beaten before anakin arrived, even his force lightning wasn't doing the job.
His only recourse was Anakins weakness and luckily for him Anakin folded.
Ironic, if he had just let Mace do his thing, he would have saved Padme and the Galaxy.

D

:chew:chew:chew
:emperor:emperor:emperor

Well said....but be carefull some folks around here dont like that kinda talk j/k

 

[shocktrooper_au]

Once again IMO (yes my opinion....I'm allowed to have it) Palps set up his own lose to Mace so Anakin (who was mistreated and not trusted by the Jedi ) would walk in and see Mace treat Palps the same way he had treated the Sand people & Dooku (ie no mercy), thus underminig Anakins opinion of the self rigious Jedi at a critical moment, on top of this you had Anakins fear of losing Padme, Palps promise to save her and Palps statement telling Anakin he has no power to save himself...thus Anakin must step in to save Palps before he is injured beyond help, Which for Palps sets Anakin on a course to the Dark side from which he cannot return (IMO! Palps injuries are a trick on Anakin not a loss to Mace). Once again this is truth from a certain point of view.

:emperor

 

[Anzik]

You guys are giving him way too much credit on foresight. The flaw here is that if he foresaw everything in such precise detail then he would have forseen his own downfall. Many times his plans didn't go as he thought but he adapted.
His plan was to create a problem on Naboo to force Valorum into a corner. He didn't plan on losing Maul, but he ADAPTED!!
He didn't plan on Qui Gon and Obi Wan surviving to warn the queen and get her to Coruscant, but he ADAPTED.
He didn't plan on Padme surviving the assassination but she did and he ADAPTED, and devised the Anakin/Padme scheme.
He didn't plan on Obi Wan discovering Geonosis, but he ADAPTED.
He didn't plan on having the crisis of the three heroes being executed to inspire the creation of the army, but he ADAPTED and used it.


Palpatine's greatest strength was his resourcefulness not his foresight.

 

[shocktrooper_au]

You raise some good points.........

But he still got what he wanted? :emperor
It was the Emperor's Successes that ironically set up his downfall and the belief in his own powers of foresight (ROTJ) that ultimately failed him

 

[bumblebee]

You raise some good points.........

But he still got what he wanted? :emperor

Yea if you consider being killed by his apprentice....in the long run.

 

[shocktrooper_au]

I thought we where discussing a 5 minute fight scene not a entire career and lifespan???:emperor

 

[Anzik]

Every Sith Lord is killed by his apprentice.

 

[Outer_Rim]

Mace had won the battle, Sidious won the war, it's that simple.
Mace was trained in form 7 lightsaber technique, (look it up, it's badass).
He had Sidious unarmed and beaten before anakin arrived, even his force lightning wasn't doing the job.
His only recourse was Anakins weakness and luckily for him Anakin folded.
Ironic, if he had just let Mace do his thing, he would have saved Padme and the Galaxy.

D

:chew:chew:chew
:emperor:emperor:emperor

A lightsaber technique that only exists in the EU. Mace does not use Vaapad in the movie. Anyway, look what Nick Gillard said about Palpatine when he was asked about Palpy´s fighting style in a Hyperspace chat time ago:

Palpatine is the master of every weapon and style. You are a fool if you think you can beat him.

You can not beat Palpatine because even if you think you got the better of him, he is able to adapt and use your advantage against you. No matter how good you are, he have all the aces up his sleeve and he will be the last man standing in the end.

The only one that can beat him is Anakin. Palpatine trusts him so much that he will never foresee Anakin´s betrayal. And of course, because it is his destiny.

 

[bumblebee]

Every Sith Lord is killed by his apprentice.

True...for the most part

 

[bumblebee]

A lightsaber technique that only exists in the EU. Mace does not use Vaapad in the movie. Anyway, look what Nick Gillard said about Palpatine when he was asked about Palpy´s fighting style in a Hyperspace chat time ago:

Palpatine is the master of every weapon and style. You are a fool if you think you can beat him.

You can not beat Palpatine because even if you think you got the better of him, he is able to adapt and use your advantage against you. No matter how good you are, he have all the aces up his sleeve and he will be the last man standing in the end.

The only one that can beat him is Anakin. Palpatine trusts him so much that he will never foresee Anakin´s betrayal. And of course, because it is his destiny.

A Sith Lord trust no one.

 

[lerath666]

Exactly. the sith rule of two is the Ultimate survival of the fittest. you live only untill someone stronger comes to take your place. And, frighteningly enough, they WANT to be killed by their apprentice, becuase it strengthens the sith order in the long run.

This is just my personal beleif here, so bear with me, ok?

i see palpatines forsight as showing him Multiple different futures, becuase as yoda ssays " allways in motion is the future" and every time a choice is made, some of the pathways he sees are forever closed to him. Seeing the posibility of what CAN be, is much different from what WILL be. This forsight allows him to plan and adapt in ways we cannot even begin to fathom.

Looking at his death in ROTJ, Vader made his decision to embrace the man he was, and acted on it FASTER than Palpatine could react and adapt.
If vader had been on a distant world, and been fighting luke, and decided to turn back, and turn on his evil master, Palpatine would of had time to adapt and put a new plan in place.

He was So CERTIAN of his victory, that He started to get sloppy, he never even imagined that Vader would turn on him. He expected the son to kill The father ,and then Take his father's place.

He was wrong.

 

[lerath666]

A Sith Lord trust no one.

I think it might be more accurate that Palpatine trusts that Anakin will never turn on him, becuase of their relatyionship before he turned him.

however, Nick Gallard is the Man who designed every aspect of lightsaber combat If he says that Palpatine is a master fighter, then He is. He's the formost athority on lightsaber combat ther is, and he should be, he invented the style.

 

[Anzik]

Palpatines "victory" only happened because the "Force" had a larger idea and Palpy's plan coincided with it. He was being played by the Force, but his arrogance wouldn't allow him to see it. "Everything that has transpired has done so according to my design" he said it himself.

 

[bumblebee]

Exactly. the sith rule of two is the Ultimate survival of the fittest. you live only untill someone stronger comes to take your place. And, frighteningly enough, they WANT to be killed by their apprentice, becuase it strengthens the sith order in the long run.

This is just my personal beleif here, so bear with me, ok?

i see palpatines forsight as showing him Multiple different futures, becuase as yoda ssays " allways in motion is the future" and every time a choice is made, some of the pathways he sees are forever closed to him. Seeing the posibility of what CAN be, is much different from what WILL be. This forsight allows him to plan and adapt in ways we cannot even begin to fathom.

Looking at his death in ROTJ, Vader made his decision to embrace the man he was, and acted on it FASTER than Palpatine could react and adapt.
If vader had been on a distant world, and been fighting luke, and decided to turn back, and turn on his evil master, Palpatine would of had time to adapt and put a new plan in place.

He was So CERTIAN of his victory, that He started to get sloppy, he never even imagined that Vader would turn on him. He expected the son to kill The father ,and then Take his father's place.

He was wrong.

good points

 

[Outer_Rim]

A Sith Lord trust no one.

Who does block that Luke deathly lightsaber blow on the second Death Star?

 

[Anzik]

I think it might be more accurate that Palpatine trusts that Anakin will never turn on him, becuase of their relatyionship before he turned him.

however, Nick Gallard is the Man who designed every aspect of lightsaber combat If he says that Palpatine is a master fighter, then He is. He's the formost athority on lightsaber combat ther is, and he should be, he invented the style.

Palpatine trusted no one. Being what he was, twisted, deceiving and evil, he wouldn't understand the concept of trust, he only used it as a tool against others.

 

[Anzik]

Who does block that Luke deathly lightsaber blow on the second Death Star?

Thats more of an accurate prediction than trust.