1/6 SSC ESB/ROTJ Darth Vader Modification Thread

[Wor-Gar]

When I first saw ROTJ, I thought there would be just a bunch of wires and such behind Vader's mask. The ultimate mind f@$k and manipulation...messing with Luke's head the whole time about the father thing. Almost like Vader cyborg had been programed so well, it almost thought it WAS Luke's father.

I remember after Empire so many people just thought Vader was lying. I never understood that. No one would ever just write off a character -- especially Darth Vader -- and just have a big cliff hanger for an entire movie be simply a lie. Makes no sense. At the climax would he just be like: Oh you fool, I was lying. Too easy an out. I was intrigued just how they would handle the Luke thing. I thought he might go dark for a bit -- and actually kill Han Solo -- which would bring him back to the light. But as much as I wanted to see Han die -- and still think he should have died making a great sacrifice -- I can see why making Luke "bad" at any time would not have worked.

With the new films though, I may get my wish on both.

 

[McHaleyArt]

Just my opinion, but I'm not sure when Lucas (himself) knew if Vader was Lukes father or not when ESB was filmed. There's just too many plot points that he has contradicted himself on.
The most obvious being Luke and Leia as siblings, wasn't actually thought of until ROTJ and the previous 2 movies are evidence to that fact.

 

[Mad Old Lu]

I totally thought Vader was lying. I think the gravity of that huge truthbomb was way too much for my 7 year old brain to comprehend!

Also, Vader just dropped it on him so suddenly, I thought he was just trying anything to get Luke to join him. And I also thought Luke was a little too quick to believe it too, when Vader Force calls him on the Falcon and Luke responds "Father". You go and investigate that story first, you idiot!

 

[Wor-Gar]

The most obvious being Luke and Leia as siblings, wasn't actually thought of until ROTJ

Seemed painfully obvious to me that Leia was Luke's sister in Empire. Two reasons: she "heard" Luke's call after Yoda says "No, there is another", and the fact that she ends up with Han and NOT Luke. There's a reason the hero can't get the girl. That whole kiss thing -- awkward as it was -- I think was done to throw people.

Luke responds "Father". You go and investigate that story first, you idiot!

No internet in Star Wars.

 

[McHaleyArt]

Well...Wor-Gar...I just have to say that your wisdom seems to be hindsight. How old were you when you first saw these flicks and did you see them when they were released to the world for the 1st time? I was 7 when ANH came out and it seemed as these films came out we were all pretty much in the dark about what was going to happen and what was truth. When yoda said "No. There is another." We really don't know what he meant (and did Lucas actually?). If so, Why didn't Ben know about the "other " in that scene. He knew about the twins (or he did later in the prequels). See? Contradictions abound. The commentary track on one the ROTJ discs says that while filming the Vader Vs Luke fight they had NO IDEA what Vader was going to say to piss Luke off until AFTER they filmed it: that Leia is Lukes sister. But then you hear it said that that was Lucas plan all along. So take from it what you will. We're all going to have our own theories and conclusions.

 

[Wor-Gar]

Well...Wor-Gar...I just have to say that your wisdom seems to be hindsight. How old were you when you first saw these flicks and did you see them when they were released to the world for the 1st time? I was 7 when ANH came out and it seemed as these films came out we were all pretty much in the dark about what was going to happen and what was truth. When yoda said "No. There is another." We really don't know what he meant (and did Lucas actually?). If so, Why didn't Ben know about the "other " in that scene. He knew about the twins (or he did later in the prequels). See? Contradictions abound. The commentary track on one the ROTJ discs says that while filming the Vader Vs Luke fight they had NO IDEA what Vader was going to say to piss Luke off until AFTER the filmed it: that Leia is Lukes sister. But then you hear it said that that was Lucas plan all along. So take from it what you will. We're all going to have our own theories and conclusions.

I was a wee bit older. At 7 you really can't grasp much. But honestly, no hindsight -- I have friends now that remember our discussions about Empire and ROTJ back in the days before release.

And you're right about the "not knowing what to say" in ROTJ -- but listen again to that track and you'll see that the writers were simply lost at what motivation would make Luke -- for a moment -- turn evil against his father. They realized the "sister" comment/threat would be enough for audiences to buy the motivation.

I think after the success of Star Wars, when Lucas realized he was going to make more, the whole father and sister thing came forward as an epic tale sort of thing. Many other things got muddled along the way, but I believe that Lucas did have the "father" bit and "sister" bit fully understood prior to ESB filming. Some even say the "father" gag was in his original STAR WARS script but was cut for simplicity. I don't necessarily believe that, although it may have been a loose idea.

 

[McHaleyArt]

At 7 you really can't grasp much.

LOL...this is statement that could get me to totally derail a thread. So I won't.

 

[Mad Old Lu]

I was a wee bit older. At 7 you really can't grasp much. But honestly, no hindsight -- I have friends now that remember our discussions about Empire and ROTJ back in the days before release.

And you're right about the "not knowing what to say" in ROTJ -- but listen again to that track and you'll see that the writers were simply lost at what motivation would make Luke -- for a moment -- turn evil against his father. They realized the "sister" comment/threat would be enough for audiences to buy the motivation.

I think after the success of Star Wars, when Lucas realized he was going to make more, the whole father and sister thing came forward as an epic tale sort of thing. Many other things got muddled along the way, but I believe that Lucas did have the "father" bit and "sister" bit fully understood prior to ESB filming.

If he did, and I do think he did, then he has some problems. I mean, having Leia kiss Luke like she did when he's recuperating on Hoth. That is just sick.

Plus that whole thing that Lucas wanted Marion to be ELEVEN YEARS OLD when a 25 year old Indy and her had an affair! Geez, George!

 

[Wor-Gar]

LOL...this is statement that could get me to totally derail a thread. So I won't.

Re-reading I think my comment sounds nasty and was certainly not directed at you. Sorry.

If he did, and I do think he did, then he has some problems. I mean, having Leia kiss Luke like she did when he's recuperating on Hoth. That is just sick.

Yeah, no, I said, that was a whole weird thing I imagine at the time they thought it was a good way to throw the audience off. It worked on 7 year olds.

 

[McHaleyArt]

Re-reading I think my comment sounds nasty and was certainly not directed at you. Sorry.



Yeah, no, I said, that was a whole weird thing I imagine at the time they thought it was a good way to throw the audience off. It worked on 7 year olds.

It also worked on Han.
...and I didn't think you where being nasty. No worries.

 

[Wor-Gar]

...and I didn't think you where being nasty. No worries.

OK, good. I like spirited debates, but humor, especially when its dry, can come across harsh and condescending at times without good delivery.

 

[eczamurai]

McHaley,

I plan to use the SS Vader's eyepieces and cutting out the Kaiyodo ones for better paintapps and better looking eyes, considering they should be seperate pieces. On the pictures the eyes seem similar enough or wouldn't this work?

Since we got 2 SS sculpts with our Vaders I can butcher one

 

[TaliBane]

No, I agree, and said I think the Kaiyodo mask is on the smallish side except maybe the nose and width. I know because I have a Vader from an original kit (recasts are even smaller I'm told). Problem is, now most of the kits you get on ebay are actually knock-offs and recasts.

McHaley,

I plan to use the SS Vader's eyepieces and cutting out the Kaiyodo ones for better paintapps and better looking eyes, considering they should be seperate pieces. On the pictures the eyes seem similar enough or wouldn't this work?

Since we got 2 SS sculpts with our Vaders I can butcher one

The eyes in the Kaiyodo are to me what looks most undersized, so using the SSC eyes might work. But... removing the Kaiyodo eyes will be easy (soft vinyl) but the eyes on the SSC will be hard plastic... major work! I have done a total resculpt of the Hasbro facemask (because I wanted a Vader that was fairly accurate but cost $0 ) and removing and redoing the eyes was really hard.

If he did, and I do think he did, then he has some problems. I mean, having Leia kiss Luke like she did when he's recuperating on Hoth. That is just sick.

Plus that whole thing that Lucas wanted Marion to be ELEVEN YEARS OLD when a 25 year old Indy and her had an affair! Geez, George!

If you read the Lucas/Speilberg discussions about Indy and Marion, they know "problems"... you don't get that far in the film industry without them.

 

[eczamurai]

The eyes in the Kaiyodo are to me what looks most undersized, so using the SSC eyes might work. But... removing the Kaiyodo eyes will be easy (soft vinyl) but the eyes on the SSC will be hard plastic... major work! I have done a total resculpt of the Hasbro facemask (because I wanted a Vader that was fairly accurate but cost $0 ) and removing and redoing the eyes was really hard.



If you read the Lucas/Speilberg discussions about Indy and Marion, they know "problems"... you don't get that far in the film industry without them.

They're seperate pieces so should be easy right? I litterally just tried and yes i just clicked them out.

 

[TaliBane]

They're seperate pieces so should be easy right? I litterally just tried and yes i just clicked them out.

Oh, okay - I've only handled the SSC figure (not mine,) not pulled it apart or even really played with it much. That's a major plus that the eyes are separate!

 

[eczamurai]

Oh, okay - I've only handled the SSC figure (not mine,) not pulled it apart or even really played with it much. That's a major plus that the eyes are separate!

Yes. It's very easy to pull them out. Same goes for the chin-vent-whatchamacallithingy.

They look about the same size/shape. Would make painting it much better.

 

[McHaleyArt]

McHaley,

I plan to use the SS Vader's eyepieces and cutting out the Kaiyodo ones for better paintapps and better looking eyes, considering they should be seperate pieces. On the pictures the eyes seem similar enough or wouldn't this work?

Since we got 2 SS sculpts with our Vaders I can butcher one

I don't think you'd be able to just cut out the kaiyodo eyes and put SSC eye piece in. Seems like it would be over killing the mod to the point of distraction... But I'd have to go look at the pieces for sure. Off the top of my head, I'd say keep the kaiyodo as is. A nice gloss paint job with the accents in the right place should bring the eyes out of the shadows a bit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[eczamurai]

I don't think you'd be able to just cut out the kaiyodo eyes and put SSC eye piece in. Seems like it would be over killing the mod to the point of distraction... But I'd have to go look at the pieces for sure. Off the top of my head, I'd say keep the kaiyodo as is. A nice gloss paint job with the accents in the right place should bring the eyes out of the shadows a bit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well, it's basically what SS did with theirs and it looks good IMO. Will have to find out for myself I guess. Just that the eye shape/size seems similar enough in your comparison pics. Could be lense distortion though.

 

[eczamurai]

Also, this coming from the guy that butchered rangefinders from hard plastic figures onto other figures?

You should be encouraging me!

 

[LOPIE]

Here are both my Vaders MODed ESB and ANH. Both are 13.5 inches