Hot Toys 1/6th scale BATMAN (Original Suit) Photo thread

[Warden]

I missed the Bruce head cos I stupidly thought I'd already paid, I won't be missing this one.

 

[vodoun]

I'm not enough of a Batman fan to get in on this action and yet I'm kinda p!$$ed off that my stock figures are not the definitive article they used to be. Its making me contemplate selling to be honest. Though I've never sold anything before.

It's done really well though. You've nearly got 3 years of pleasure out of it against several months old WIP custom sculpt.

The amusing part is too many jump ship the least little thing. What's fantastic today is sheot tomorrow. I'm not against this custom sculpt but the trend thats happening so often on this board is so uncanny.

Too many are so quick to sheot over a nearly 3 year old product. Look at any of the big figures on this board. The trend runs through it all.

 

[a-dev]

I don't really see it happening with regard to the franchises that I'm particularly into like Terminator. Maybe we're just a far less fussy bunch. There have been custom sculpts alright but as yet none that people are generally toting as superior to the HT ones - as seems to be the norm in the DC section.

 

[MarfMaster]

No. Not really. Honestly, likeness of any sculpt is largely subjective to the viewer at best. I think it's fine on it's own. I just think it's uncanny how much room there was to improve on it when you see Adam's sculpt next to it.

In and of itself it is not bad IMO just when side by side I think pwnage can be called.

It is better I must admit. It just surprises me how anyone sees these subtleties which the original sculpts, once thought to be almost beyond reproach, are lacking.

Early on there were customs which just weren't improvements on what HT did. Now though some of this stuff is so unbelievably real, right off the screen looking and I have mixed feelings about it all. I'm not enough of a Batman fan to get in on this action and yet I'm kinda p!$$ed off that my stock figures are not the definitive article they used to be. Its making me contemplate selling to be honest. Though I've never sold anything before.

Definitive to who? If you're happy with your stock Bats, nobody can take that away from you. There are lots of collectors out there that would still love to get their hands on a stock OC Bats, nobody is going to snicker or point because you decided not to switch out the sculpt on yours

 

[a-dev]

Definitive to who? If you're happy with your stock Bats, nobody can take that away from you. There are lots of collectors out there that would still love to get their hands on a stock OC Bats, nobody is going to snicker or point because you decided not to switch out the sculpt on yours

I don't even understand my own feelings on the subject. You'd think with me not being a major Batman obsessive that I'd have no issue with my stock figures as they are. And yet knowing that there are so many improvements, better alternate sculpts and cool custom dioramas out there bugs me when I look at my figures. I want to complain, indeed I kinda am, and yet what right do I have to do so when I'm unwilling to get these custom heads and capes myself etc....and I'm unwilling because....I'm just not a huge batman fan, only casually. This of course leads back to the question - 'so why the ___k amn't I happy with my stock figures??!!' So yeah I'm a bit circular and on this.

A possible answer is that 'casually' just isn't enough to justify having these figures. Perhaps I jumped on a Bandwagon because there wasn't much else I wanted at the time and I wanted something new just for the sake of it. Maybe someone else would be better off with my figures. Of course I say that and then I'll take the Tumbler out of the box and suddenly it'll be "OK, no way I'm selling that". And if you keep the Tumbler it'd be bizarre not to keep a Batman...and if you keep Batman you might aswell keep The Joker etc etc....

Thats an interesting question for the Batman fans actually - whats your most expendable, 'could maybe see it go', HT item.

 

[intothevoid]

No. Not really. Honestly, likeness of any sculpt is largely subjective to the viewer at best. I think it's fine on it's own. I just think it's uncanny how much room there was to improve on it when you see Adam's sculpt next to it.

In and of itself it is not bad IMO just when side by side I think pwnage can be called.

Best way to put it.

I mean I never thought the OC likeness was perfect but it was bloody good and didn't need much improvement.

Until I saw Adam's...

 

[intothevoid]

I don't really see it happening with regard to the franchises that I'm particularly into like Terminator. Maybe we're just a far less fussy bunch. There have been custom sculpts alright but as yet none that people are generally toting as superior to the HT ones - as seems to be the norm in the DC section.

Well, the simple reason is because they ARE superior to the HT ones.

When I say they I mean any of Adam's work, BobbyC's work and also monkeyrobotmaster's recent joker heads.

I don't really think there's much doubt that any of these are in fact more accurate likenesses than HT's work on the Joker/other characters

 

[a-dev]

Well, the simple reason is because they ARE superior to the HT ones.

When I say they I mean any of Adam's work, BobbyC's work and also monkeyrobotmaster's recent joker heads.

I don't really think there's much doubt that any of these are in fact more accurate likenesses than HT's work on the Joker/other characters

I'm not arguing that anymore. I agree....kinda with reluctance because it makes me think less of the figures I have - see my posts above.

 

[MarfMaster]

I don't even understand my own feelings on the subject. You'd think with me not being a major Batman obsessive that I'd have no issue with my stock figures as they are. And yet knowing that there are so many improvements, better alternate sculpts and cool custom dioramas out there bugs me when I look at my figures. I want to complain, indeed I kinda am, and yet what right do I have to do so when I'm unwilling to get these custom heads and capes myself etc....and I'm unwilling because....I'm just not a huge batman fan, only casually. This of course leads back to the question - 'so why the ___k amn't I happy with my stock figures??!!' So yeah I'm a bit circular and on this.

A possible answer is that 'casually' just isn't enough to justify having these figures. Perhaps I jumped on a Bandwagon because there wasn't much else I wanted at the time and I wanted something new just for the sake of it. Maybe someone else would be better off with my figures. Of course I say that and then I'll take the Tumbler out of the box and suddenly it'll be "OK, no way I'm selling that". And if you keep the Tumbler it'd be bizarre not to keep a Batman...and if you keep Batman you might aswell keep The Joker etc etc....

Thats an interesting question for the Batman fans actually - whats your most expendable, 'could maybe see it go', HT item.

I can actually understand where you're coming from, I've had similar feelings about different subjects. And to answer that last question...my DX Bats, because when I look at my Batman shelf my eyes immediately go to OC Bats and rarely make their way over to the DX

 

[haytil]

it was bloody good and didn't need much improvement.

Until I saw Adam's...

That doesn't make any sense. Either it needed much improvement or it didn't. The existence of another head is an independent event that has no bearing on how good the original head is.

I think the OC Batman head was pretty near enough to perfect. So even if there's a more accurate head, that doesn't mean the OC Batman all of a sudden needs improvement.

Similarly, the v1 Joker head always needed a vast improvement. This was true from the beginning, before any other heads (Hot Toys or custom) were made.

Well, the simple reason is because they ARE superior to the HT ones.

When I say they I mean any of Adam's work, BobbyC's work and also monkeyrobotmaster's recent joker heads.

I don't really think there's much doubt that any of these are in fact more accurate likenesses than HT's work on the Joker/other characters

First of all, some of them are superior, some of them are not. Secondly, those that are superior are only marginally better - which is why some of us balk at how people tote around the custom heads as being such a MAJOR and CRITICAL improvement, and act as if that's a given and that you'd be crazy to disagree.

Nothing's superior to the BR Joker sculpt, for instance. Custom heads offer different expressions, but I don't think they improve on the likeness.

Though less popular, the DX head also has pretty perfect likeness - it's just not a very popular expression (and people don't like the PERS).

An example of a head that's "superior:" The OC Batman head being discussed. But it's only marginally better.

The likeness is more accurate in that the curves of the cowl on the custom are smoother, rather than the angular lines of the Hot Toys cowl. But that's a pretty small issue, one that you wouldn't notice unless you compared them directly.

So yes, it's an improvement, but a marginal one - not critical or major.

 

[intothevoid]

That doesn't make any sense. Either it needed much improvement or it didn't. The existence of another head is an independent event that has no bearing on how good the original head is.

I think the OC Batman head was pretty near enough to perfect. So even if there's a more accurate head, that doesn't mean the OC Batman all of a sudden needs improvement.

It DOES make sense.

On it's own independant self, it did NOT need much improvement because it was a close enough likeness and the overall figure is superb, with a very well done and well proportioned body.

However, once you see the comparison with Adam's you start to see the areas where HT's version was quite inaccurate. TO me, I just want the BEST available 1/6 representation of the character, so once I see that there is something BETTER available (and it is not marginally better, it is a LOT better because it improves on a number of things which in total make a BIG impact), my reaction is to want it. And if I can get this, I will.


Regarding the jokers - The BR Joker sculpt is a very good likeness no doubt. But when you compare one of Adam's or Bobby's heads to it in hand, you can pick out a LOT of areas the BR Joker is inaccurate

I don't have any of MRM's jokers so can't comment from in hand experience, but from pictures, again, I can see how it is more accurate a likeness than HT's.

If you don't agree well then we can agree to disagree, which is all well and good

 

[thenammagazine]

It is better I must admit. It just surprises me how anyone sees these subtleties which the original sculpts, once thought to be almost beyond reproach, are lacking.

Early on there were customs which just weren't improvements on what HT did. Now though some of this stuff is so unbelievably real, right off the screen looking and I have mixed feelings about it all. I'm not enough of a Batman fan to get in on this action and yet I'm kinda p!$$ed off that my stock figures are not the definitive article they used to be. Its making me contemplate selling to be honest. Though I've never sold anything before.

Don't worry. You're getting lost in the moment. A small handful of heads made by a single artist will always be better than a mass produced collectible. The artist has the time to refine and perfect it, working on his own time vs. a company which has deadlines to meet. That's also why I think the PWND label is kinda lame, childish and out of place.

 

[haytil]

It DOES make sense.

On it's own independant self, it did NOT need much improvement because it was a close enough likeness and the overall figure is superb, with a very well done and well proportioned body.

If it was close enough that you weren't seeking out a better head, of your own accord, then it didn't need much improvement! You keep going back and forth!

What you're saying now, in this latest post, makes some sense if your position is "I want the most accurate version that exists." Fine, I can understand that.

But the existence of another version doesn't degrade how good the original is. It might not be as good, but it's still just as good as it was. That's the statement I took issue with.

However, once you see the comparison with Adam's you start to see the areas where HT's version was quite inaccurate.

If it takes a direct comparison to notice inaccuracies, then that means the original was pretty close to perfect as it was.

(and it is not marginally better, it is a LOT better because it improves on a number of things which in total make a BIG impact),

Again, if it takes a direct comparison with a superior product for you to have noticed and desired a better version, then the superior product is pretty much by definition only marginally better.

Saying it's marginally better isn't putting down the sculptor of the custom - if anything, it's just complementing the sculptor of the Hot Toys one, by suggesting that there wasn't much room for improvement, and what room there was is only noticeable if you really scrutinize it and point it out.

Regarding the jokers - The BR Joker sculpt is a very good likeness no doubt. But when you compare one of Adam's or Bobby's heads to it in hand, you can pick out a LOT of areas the BR Joker is inaccurate

I've yet to see any convincing, specific justification of that point.

More to the point, and like you said, everybody raved over the BR Joker head and thought it was a pretty perfect likeness. There's no reason that should no longer be true, just because an even better one might or might not exist.

Hence my feelings that they're pretty much equal.

 

[CREG Customs]

Don't worry. You're getting lost in the moment. A small handful of heads made by a single artist will always be better than a mass produced collectible. The artist has the time to refine and perfect it, working on his own time vs. a company which has deadlines to meet. That's also why I think the PWND label is kinda lame, childish and out of place.

Seriously? Are you over here complaining in a Hot Toys thread? I thought you wanted all of us dragged out back and shot?

Wow - I guess if I had devil in my name I could get away with a funny pic but I suppose I miscalculated.

Adam's sculpt has a better likeness for reasons you stated and therefore it owns/pwns the HT one in my assessment*.

To A-Dev: I only have 2 bashes in my collections. All the other figures in my collection are stock. I like them that way. My DX Bats is one of my favorites...

But I have been through what you are talking about simply with the next release of a figure.

I mean look at the BB HT and TDK OC. Vast improvements. I think it will always be this way and has nothing to do with custom head sculpts. As stated if you like them then awesome. But I think most of what we all have will be trumped in the coming years as companies continue to get better with the likenesses and such.

* Disclaimer: The views expressed here are solely that of CREG Customs and do not reflect those of sideshowcollectors or any other living or dead human being.

 

[thenammagazine]

Dude, are you 4 years old? You seem to throw a temper tantrum any time someone questions a post of yours. Slapping a "PWND" label on there was absolutely childish and completely unwarranted. Seriously, Adam's head is better, everybody can see that, but I highly doubt it would look as good if he'd adhered to the same time constraints and multiple jobs HT's artists do on the regular basis.

As to your childish remark about me wanting you dragged out and shot, reread the initial post in that thread. If you'd like, I can break it down into small, single-syllable words for you to understand if you still don't get it.

 

[CREG Customs]

But the existence of another version doesn't degrade how good the original is. It might not be as good, but it's still just as good as it was. That's the statement I took issue with.

In all seriousness do you feel like people are degrading your collection that you take pride in?

Just wondering why you take issue with the above philosophy.

I see both points actually.

Again - to me most of this is all about personal tastes.

Some people like classic cars and hate new ones. One some levels there is no disputing that newer cars are superior to the old ones hence the reason they change them over time and not only produce the same exact thing year after year.

BUT at the same time that does not diminish the quality of classic cars and in other areas classics are better (to some).

To me both stances can exist - it just depends on what side of the coin you are on.

Again - just curious. It seems to get under your skin a little.

 

[EVILFACE]

Adams Begins head looks great, but are there any pics of it on the Begins body? It does look a bit large.

 

[intothevoid]

Haytil - I never said that the existence of Adam's head makes the HT OC head crap or degraded.

It is STILL a great head.

Adam's is simply better. Hence, if and when I get Adam's, I will probably off-load the HT version to recoup some of the cost. That doesn't mean I think the HT version is crap.

The only HT heads I would say have been CRAP are the Wayne sculpts, V1 Joker, and the v1 TDK Batman head.

Regarding the BR Joker - same thing, I absolutely agree that the existence of more accurate custom heads doesn't make the BR Head the BR head crap. But I simply have no need for it no longer so I sold mine.

 

[CREG Customs]

Dude, are you 4 years old? You seem to throw a temper tantrum any time someone questions a post of yours.

I see what you did there...

I'll have you know I'm 6.

Slapping a "PWND" label on there was absolutely childish and completely unwarranted. Seriously, Adam's head is better, everybody can see that, but I highly doubt it would look as good if he'd adhered to the same time constraints and multiple jobs HT's artists do on the regular basis.

As to your childish remark about me wanting you dragged out and shot, reread the initial post in that thread. If you'd like, I can break it down into small, single-syllable words for you to understand if you still don't get it.

I sincerely thought what you said was funny. And that you seemed offended or at least felt that you needed to defend a Batman head that someone did a photoshop of was somewhat comical but if I did offend you with the pic I am sorry. No harm meant.

As for your closing about me being childish before you set me straight in a stern 7 year-old manner.... I actually agree with you and think HT needs it's own section. I was making a joke as I was to your comments to me in my Joe threads which I assume are some of the tantrums I always throw that you are referring to?

I always keep things light hearted man. Toy forums are the last place that are worth spending any emotional energy in (unless it's excitement over a figure release).

No worries though. I will no longer address you as though you have a sense of humor.

 

[haytil]

Haytil - I never said that the existence of Adam's head makes the HT OC head crap or degraded.

It is STILL a great head.

Adam's is simply better. Hence, if and when I get Adam's, I will probably off-load the HT version to recoup some of the cost. That doesn't mean I think the HT version is crap.

The only HT heads I would say have been CRAP are the Wayne sculpts, V1 Joker, and the v1 TDK Batman head.

Regarding the BR Joker - same thing, I absolutely agree that the existence of more accurate custom heads doesn't make the BR Head the BR head crap. But I simply have no need for it no longer so I sold mine.

Aside from your specific opinions regarding the Wayne head (I think it's pretty good!), I think everything in this post makes perfect sense to me. I just don't think that's what you were implying in your first post (the one I objected to), though perhaps what you wrote here is what you meant.