Hot Toys - MMS196 - The Avengers: Battle Damaged Mark VII (Movie Promo Edition)

[Rorywan]

Has anyone even hinted that?

All people who were not allowed to order one are asking is they were informed from the start that this would only be for sale for people living in the US before getting everyone to sign up to their news alert. Already I've missed out on at least one UK seller who was taking PO's for this because stupidly I wanted to buy through Sideshow. I wont be making that mistake again

..and that's exactly the issue. No respect for international customers.
Sure, HT can make any demands they so wish on SS. But if SS wish to accept those terms they should be aware that could either piss off their own customers or lose future sales.

There are correct ways to deal with an issue like this, as Tommy says why not at least have the decency to announce in advance that the pre-sale wouldn't be available to their international customers?
Why didn't they I wonder? ....hmmmm? lost advance sales on other items perhaps? It's all about the $$$.

This exact same thing happened with the DX Sparrow Exclusive version, HT wouldn't allow international orders on that either. Well, all hell broke loose over a silly plastic telescope.
But after that it didn't happen again. I would imagine that SS learnt from the mistake and said no to HT. All Ex items have been worldwide releases since then.

But here we are again. I think international customers have every right to be pissed with SS over this. I am and I didn't even plan on ordering it! Telling someone you can't have something because of your
geographic location is not an easy pill to swallow, especially since you will end up paying quite a bit more for it anyway with shipping etc.

 

[Darkmatter]

I think international customers have a valid complaint with regards to the pre-order of this figure, but I also don't think that was Sideshow's call.

Hot Toys dictates where their products may be sold and Sideshow is merely a distributor. Hot Toys obviously had very specific plans, for whatever reasons, for this figure.

From the original press release:
"For overseas Fans, this Collectible Figurine will be available for special promotions in specific markets."

hot toys is a business.

 

[Darkmatter]

ready for the next pre-order debacle?

 

[Malgus]

Has anyone even hinted that?

All people who were not allowed to order one are asking is they were informed from the start that this would only be for sale for people living in the US before getting everyone to sign up to their news alert. Already I've missed out on at least one UK seller who was taking PO's for this because stupidly I wanted to buy through Sideshow. I wont be making that mistake again

Rorywan did. He said Sideshow should not agree to HT's terms. That means not selling this figure.

 

[Rorywan]

I don't think you have a grasp of how sole agent/distributor agreement work?

They are usually divided by territories/countries, and the said distributor are only allowed to sell/ship their stuffs on their respected country. This is done so that it's fair for the distributors, as they normally have order quotas from manufacturer. its also to control the quantity and pricing system. E.G. a pack of Marlboro cigarettes cost less than $2usd in Indonesia, while the same product cost bout $10usd in Singapore.

Yeah, of course that's true. But not when the company (SS) have already been selling/distributing near identical items worldwide for years?

HT do this on a whim? Jack Sparrows extra long plastic telescope was a no-no for anyone outside the US, but every other DX exclusives were ok?
That doesn't make any sense. No agent/distributor agreement could have anything so specific included that would effect accessories on one release and not on the other.?
HT make it up as they go along.

Rorywan did. He said Sideshow should not agree to HT's terms. That means not selling this figure.

No, what I was discussing in context was if SS should be held responsible for the whole fiasco. Hydeous suggested that it wasn't SS's fault, that they were just doing what they were told.
I said that if they decided to go along with it then they are just as responsible.
It's in their power to make decisions which could impact their own consumer base. I'm not saying they shouldn't have sold them, thats their business. But I know personally
if it was my business, I certainly wouldn't have agreed to these terms and conditions from HT.

 

[tommyh84]

Rorywan did. He said Sideshow should not agree to HT's terms. That means not selling this figure.

No he didn't, he said if Sideshow were to agree to Hot Toys terms (i.e. only to let this be available for those in the US) then they themselves (sideshow) should be prepared for the backlash of angry collectors and not to just pass the buck and say 'it weren't up to us'

Hot Toys ruling may have shafted us but Sideshow not letting us know this straight away has shafted us just as much if not more

 

[Rorywan]

No he didn't, he said if Sideshow were to agree to Hot Toys terms (i.e. only to let this be available for those in the US) then they themselves (sideshow) should be prepared for the backlash of angry collectors and not to just pass the buck and say 'it weren't up to us'

Hot Toys ruling may have shafted us but Sideshow not letting us know this straight away has shafted us just as much if not more

 

[Cyberseven]

I think international customers have a valid complaint with regards to the pre-order of this figure, but I also don't think that was Sideshow's call.

Hot Toys dictates where their products may be sold and Sideshow is merely a distributor. Hot Toys obviously had very specific plans, for whatever reasons, for this figure.

From the original press release:
"For overseas Fans, this Collectible Figurine will be available for special promotions in specific markets."

I agree international customers have a valid complaint, just not 20 pages worth of the same statements.
It's done and neither SSC or HT is going to change it now, unfortunately.

 

[Mr.Tanker]

If Hot Toys stipulates that a figure may only be sold within a certain region, Sideshow has little to no ability to say no.

More than likely it's contractual, as part of their distribution agreement.

But even if it exists on a figure by figure basis, without any overarching contractual obligation to abide by Hot Toys terms, it would make very little business sense for Sideshow to refuse a specific figure due to those restrictions.

Sideshow most likely is making a considerable amount of money in their partnership with Hot Toys. Whatever little money they may loose, by upsetting a few fans, is far far outweighed by the profit from the figure itself.

By refusing a specific deal, they also run the risk of being denied future exclusives, which would certainly not be in their financial best interest.

Like it or not, but Sideshow is a business. And they are going to operate in a manner that is in their both short term and long term best financial interests.

But, like I stated at the beginning of this, I would be very surprised if Sideshow is not contractually obligated to honor any territorial restrictions dictated by Hot Toys as part of their original distribution deal.

 

[mrclean08]

Not sure if this has been posted, but here is a video of the Mark VII BD Version on display in Hong Kong

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXH6eVBolgU

Yikes. This video kinda makes the figure look unflattering. The detail on the figure in this video looks kinda "off" compared to the promo pics. I hope it's just the way this was filmed or the lighting with the camera etc., and that the figure in hand looks spectacular.

 

[tommyh84]

Sideshow most likely is making a considerable amount of money in their partnership with Hot Toys. Whatever little money they may loose, by upsetting a few fans, is far far outweighed by the profit from the figure itself.

There are 196 countries in the world and so far this figure is only available in 3 of them. Given Sideshow is the biggest official Hot Toys reseller for the majority of those 196 countries I disagree that they're only upsetting a few fans

 

[Rorywan]

If Hot Toys stipulates that a figure may only be sold within a certain region, Sideshow has little to no ability to say no.

More than likely it's contractual, as part of their distribution agreement.

But even if it exists on a figure by figure basis, without any overarching contractual obligation to abide by Hot Toys terms, it would make very little business sense for Sideshow to refuse a specific figure due to those restrictions.

Sideshow most likely is making a considerable amount of money in their partnership with Hot Toys. Whatever little money they may loose, by upsetting a few fans, is far far outweighed by the profit from the figure itself.

By refusing a specific deal, they also run the risk of being denied future exclusives, which would certainly not be in their financial best interest.

Like it nor not, but Sideshow is a business. And they are going to operate in a manner that is in their both short term and long term best financial interests.

But, like I stated at the beginning of this, I would be very surprised if Sideshow is not contractually obligated to honor any territorial restrictions dictated by Hot Toys as part of their original distribution deal.

"A few fans"
You mean all their international customers? Their international orders are a huge part of their financial stability.

And you mention long term profits, thats just the thing, SS sell a lot more than HT figures, they may even lose the HT distribution deal down the line, one of the main rules in business is to build up your customer base, keep it growing. Not to piss off a large chunk of it! over a very small release that will yield a reasonably small profit? That's a real case of short term profit over long term gain.

There are 196 countries in the world and so far this figure is only available in 3 of them. Given Sideshow is the biggest official Hot Toys reseller for the majority of those 196 countries I disagree that they're only upsetting a few fans

Good post.

 

[Hydeous]

Yeah, of course that's true. But not when the company (SS) have already been selling/distributing near identical items worldwide for years?

HT do this on a whim? Jack Sparrows extra long plastic telescope was a no-no for anyone outside the US, but every other DX exclusives were ok?
That doesn't make any sense. No agent/distributor agreement could have anything so specific included that would effect accessories on one release and not on the other.?
HT make it up as they go along.





No, what I was discussing in context was if SS should be held responsible for the whole fiasco. Hydeous suggested that it wasn't SS's fault, that they were just doing what they were told.
I said that if they decided to go along with it then they are just as responsible.
It's in their power to make decisions which could impact their own consumer base. I'm not saying they shouldn't have sold them, thats their business. But I know personally
if it was my business, I certainly wouldn't have agreed to these terms and conditions from HT.

If SS have the power, they would wanna get more of this and sell it as their own exclusive its more profit for them, but of course HT wont allow this as they have to protect and give these to their other distributors in other countries as well.

HT's biggest market is the US and Japan (its been mentioned in the interviews), the MSRP is significantly higher in this 2 countries, and being that HT is a HK company, they must also look after their domestic market and uphold the flagship store (Toy hunter) the long telescope from Sparrow is a good business move, so that the buyers in Japan and US stick and buy from their main supplier and not buy them from other countries, as the MSRP is significantly cheaper.

For example the MSRP of red snapper is $200, Mark 42 die cast is $200, batman dx12 is $195, Bane is $145 from the dealer in Indonesia. Compare that to the US and Japan price.

If Hot Toys stipulates that a figure may only be sold within a certain region, Sideshow has little to no ability to say no.

More than likely it's contractual, as part of their distribution agreement.

But even if it exists on a figure by figure basis, without any overarching contractual obligation to abide by Hot Toys terms, it would make very little business sense for Sideshow to refuse a specific figure due to those restrictions.

Sideshow most likely is making a considerable amount of money in their partnership with Hot Toys. Whatever little money they may loose, by upsetting a few fans, is far far outweighed by the profit from the figure itself.

By refusing a specific deal, they also run the risk of being denied future exclusives, which would certainly not be in their financial best interest.

Like it nor not, but Sideshow is a business. And they are going to operate in a manner that is in their both short term and longer best financial interests.

But, like I stated at the beginning of this, I would be very surprised if Sideshow is not contractually obligated to honor any territorial restrictions dictated by Hot Toys as part of their original distribution deal.

 

[karamazov80]

I remember everyone panicking when the PPO went up for TF Bats, and it ended up being available for, like, a month after it initially went up. And Shadow Predator lasted forever. But that was through SS, I don't know if these were easier or harder to come by in the Asian markets.

I kind of though the same thing was going to happen for this figure too. I wonder if there's just that many more people collecting now due to the popularity of Avengers/Iron Man, or if was extremely limited.

Gotta be edition size alone. Batman himself is easily as popular as any given Iron Man. The only problem is that the variants are limited due to the nature of the character. I'm guessing there were thousands and thousands of those.

Kind of funny that when last year's Mark VI exclusive went up, I procrastinated, in part because I didn't really need the figure, but also because of the TF Bats issue. I assumed "rare exclusive" meant it was not particularly rare at all. But with HT, it's hard to figure out. Some truly are rare in relative Hot Toys terms (like this guy), but many (Toyfair Bats, the 10th Anniversary figures) are far from it.

 

[Rorywan]

If SS have the power, they would wanna get more of this and sell it as their own exclusive its more profit for them, but of course HT wont allow this as they have to protect and give these to their other distributors in other countries as well.

HT's biggest market is the US and Japan (its been mentioned in the interviews), the MSRP is significantly higher in this 2 countries, and being that HT is a HK company, they must also look after their domestic market and uphold the flagship store (Toy hunter) the long telescope from Sparrow is a good business move, so that the buyers in Japan and US stick and buy from their main supplier and not buy them from other countries, as the MSRP is significantly cheaper.

For example the MSRP of red snapper is $200, Mark 42 die cast is $200, batman dx12 is $195, Bane is $145 from the dealer in Indonesia. Compare that to the US and Japan price.

erm..There are no other official distributers in most other countries? Apart from some dodgy websites, which don't function or trade with the public. SS are the main worldwide distributer for HT outside the US and Japan.

So what is to gain by not allowing other countries to buy the US and HK exclusives?

 

[Hydeous]

ready for the next pre-order debacle?

Is this helmet more accurate to the Avengers ver?

This is another good business move by HT, but a **** move to the collectors. A true slap in the face, so not only is the increased price of the mark VII BD is already $300 (compared to the previous movie promo which was $190), they decide to give a half complete figure and the accurate helmet on a less popular figure

Spoiler

now that most fans have seen the IM3 movie, and red snapper only have a few secs of screen time

 

[CrAZyVEgAsBoY]

If Hot Toys stipulates that a figure may only be sold within a certain region, Sideshow has little to no ability to say no.

More than likely it's contractual, as part of their distribution agreement.

But even if it exists on a figure by figure basis, without any overarching contractual obligation to abide by Hot Toys terms, it would make very little business sense for Sideshow to refuse a specific figure due to those restrictions.

Sideshow most likely is making a considerable amount of money in their partnership with Hot Toys. Whatever little money they may loose, by upsetting a few fans, is far far outweighed by the profit from the figure itself.

By refusing a specific deal, they also run the risk of being denied future exclusives, which would certainly not be in their financial best interest.

Like it or not, but Sideshow is a business. And they are going to operate in a manner that is in their both short term and long term best financial interests.

But, like I stated at the beginning of this, I would be very surprised if Sideshow is not contractually obligated to honor any territorial restrictions dictated by Hot Toys as part of their original distribution deal.

Mr. tanker, I must say you do have a way with words. Guys, come on, we know hes right about this, how can you really blame SS for this? just put yourself in SS shoes for a sec. If you were in charge what would you do? Whats best for YOUR company, keeping HT happy and doing as they ask. Its what anyone would do.

Now is it fair? Of course not but guys also keep in mind that its only been 72 hours since these went on sale in/for the US, it might be possible that some other international countries might get there PO here in the near future. We still don't know the exact size of this collection, I mean were all guessing but no one really knows as of yet. So my advice is to try to keep an open/hopeful mind about this until we know for sure.

 

[PopCultKid]

Thats what she said.

somebody had to do it

That's not true. It's gift cards you're limited on what you can use them for. There are very few items that reward points can't be used for.

You're right if you collect all different types of pieces but you're a bit screwed with points if you're mainly chasing HT because you can't use points on anything with free shipping; so that limits you to just exclusives.

But this little FU extra charge that they're doing now with the flat rate shipping may be a blessing in disguise. It's increasing everything by $10 (US) but now regular releases will be fair game for points

Jesus, lots of angry elves in this thread since I last popped in! Ah, I missed all the fun.

So obviously I missed this figure as well. It looks great but I'm not getting any more IM stuff. Anyone like to summarise in a sentence or two what went down? Why is everyone so pissed?


I heard that they didn't take international orders, which I find highly unacceptable considering SS actively pursue international customers with everything else, thats just a big FU to anyone who has been supporting them outside of US. And it doesn't matter the reasoning behind it, just very bad PR.

Rego summed it up a few pages back:

it started off with international customers having legitimate complaints after being told they cant place an order. ending with general complaints of people being pissed off they missed out with others baiting them in to arguments because they had no issues what-so ever.

in between; people arguing schematics of what makes a man vs child, wives, legitimacy of plane schedules, weight and underwear sizes.

Add flippers, scalpers and real collectors, SS is the devil, a splash of the big bang vs. religion,.... smartphones...nizzels & beotches... pimps & hoes... yea.... I think that's it.... and here we are...

 

[tommyh84]

HT's biggest market is the US and Japan (its been mentioned in the interviews)

Surely that's only down to Sideshow (a company based in the US) being the largest world wide seller of Hot Toys? Unless they've done studies that prove the majority of their customers are based in the US vs the entire rest of the world

 

[Mr.Tanker]

There are 196 countries in the world and so far this figure is only available in 3 of them. Given Sideshow is the biggest official Hot Toys reseller for the majority of those 196 countries I disagree that they're only upsetting a few fans

But the figure also sold out immediately in every territory in which it was offered.

The only way this will have a significant and detrimental effect on either Sideshow or Hot Toys is if they see a significant decrease in future orders from those territories excluded from this promotion, and I simply don't expect that to happen.

And it's also important to remember that, even if you don't like it, the sales from the U.S. alone most likely dwarf the rest of those territories (excluding Japan) combined.