Hot Toys MMS429 - Return of the Jedi Luke Skywalker

[TurdFurgusonsHat]

Folks didn’t like what happened to there hero...they hated seeing him fall from grace.


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Nah, I never much cared for Jake Skywalker anyways.

 

[TaliBane]

No he totally would. That moment in the throne room that he tossed his lightsaber was the moment he truly became a Jedi. Not the skilled samurai warrior jedis of the Clone Wars, but a true Jedi. He became a pacifist. He. Would. Not. Fight.

His natural inclination was to join the fight, that’s why he cut himself off from the force. He was closing the door on a temptation he would no longer accept. This is 100% in line with where Luke’s character ended up at the end of RotJ.

I read this repeated over and over, yet it's not true. He throws away his saber in ROTJ because he won't kill his father. That's the only time that "He. Would. Not. Fight" because the situation was unique.

The ROTJ context is so different to TLJ it's really not comparable. Not wanting to kill your father because you sense the good in him and being a bitter hermit refusing to even help his sister (if not the last vestige of the Rebellion) are two totally different things.

In the actual Battle of Hoth in ESB, Luke fights yet in the Battle of Not-Hoth in TLJ, suddenly he won't - even though the situation (Rebels and his sister trapped in ice/not-ice base with Empire/Not-Empire surrounding it) is exactly the same.

I mean are you seriously arguing that if the Palps/Vader/Luke throne room sequence ended (in the same way as it does) and Luke's help was still needed to destroy the Death Star or help bring down the Endor shield Luke would have said "nope sorry Leia, Han and Rebels, I'm a true Jedi and a Pacifist now so... I. Do. Not. Fight" and not helped/attacked?

 

[pixletwin]

“A Jedi only uses the force for knowledge or defense. Never for attack.”

Pretty sure Yoda meant that for every situation... not just when ones father is trying to kill their father.

 

[Wor-Gar]

“A Jedi only uses the force for knowledge or defense. Never for attack.”

Using logic and example in an online argument, how dare you, sir.

 

[TaliBane]

“A Jedi only uses the force for knowledge or defense. Never for attack.”

Pretty sure Yoda meant that for every situation... not just when ones father is trying to kill their father.

That word... pretty broad word, don't you think?

Pseudo-spiritual semantics and bogus technicalities aside, the first step in active defense is to attack, no? The truth is, pretty much EVERYTHING Luke did in the OT was "defense"... while attacking.

I mean what's Ben doing to Walrusman exactly... "defending" Luke - but not attacking? Is that the Jedi "stand your ground" defense... for attacfense?

Yoda also said not to go and help his friends (who both of them knew to be in danger) simply for the greater cause - i.e. allow them to die simply to produce a fully trained Jedi Knight in order to...

..."never attack" an Empire that is conquering and murdering throughout the galaxy? Huh?

But... you CAN "defend" those who are attacked? We need a force-Jedi lawyer here.

Using logic and example in an online argument, how dare you, sir.

But did that example and logic clarify it for you?

 

[Wor-Gar]

I'm not certain I've ever been clarified.

 

[pixletwin]

Good points. If you follow pacifism through to its conclusions it presents a lot of philosophical questions. The only one of your points that I feel like I can address:

Yoda also said not to go and help his friends (who both of them knew to be in danger) simply for the greater cause - allow them to die simply to produce a fully trained Jedi Knight in order to...

Yoda correctly pointed out to Luke that he didn’t KNOW they would die should he not intervene. Indeed we can see that Lando, Leia, and Chewie were able to escape just fine. In fact they were in more danger because they had to turn around and save Luke.

Point is Luke knew his greatest weakness was how easily manipulated he could be by his force-sight (or whatever it’s called). So he removed himself from his friends when he realized he posed a greater danger than he could ever protect them from.

When Rey came to the island he saw a way he could help his friends and still hold to his beliefs.

 

[jal76]

“A Jedi only uses the force for knowledge or defense. Never for attack.”

Pretty sure Yoda meant that for every situation... not just when ones father is trying to kill their father.

I swore off TLJ debates but still have to voice my appreciation for this great example of how thoughtful analysis of the facts that are actually being presented by the film will always trump "head canon." Good post!

 

[xipotec]

Good points. If you follow pacifism through to its conclusions it presents a lot of philosophical questions. The only one of your points that I feel like I can address:



Yoda correctly pointed out to Luke that he didn’t KNOW they would die should he not intervene. Indeed we can see that Lando, Leia, and Chewie were able to escape just fine. In fact they were in more danger because they had to turn around and save Luke.

Point is Luke knew his greatest weakness was how easily manipulated he could be by his force-sight (or whatever it’s called). So he removed himself from his friends when he realized he posed a greater danger than he could ever protect them from.

When Rey came to the island he saw a way he could help his friends and still hold to his beliefs.

Its been a pleasure reading these posts....

but your not changing any minds.....the anger is bone deep that Luke didn't save the day and put that "Mary Sue" in her place....

 

[TaliBane]

Good points. If you follow pacifism through to its conclusions it presents a lot of philosophical questions. The only one of your points that I feel like I can address:



Yoda correctly pointed out to Luke that he didn’t KNOW they would die should he not intervene. Indeed we can see that Lando, Leia, and Chewie were able to escape just fine. In fact they were in more danger because they had to turn around and save Luke.

Point is Luke knew his greatest weakness was how easily manipulated he could be by his force-sight (or whatever it’s called).

Saying that Han and Leia being captured by the Empire - given what the Empire did to Luke's Uncle/Aunt, what they did to Leia while captive on the Death Star and what they actually do to Han on Bespin (torture him for hours, then encase him in metal - with low chance of survival - for delivery to a ruthless criminal who has tried to have him murdered in the past) - won't lead to their deaths is a pretty iffy argument overall. Han in fact was VERY lucky to survive.

And it's Ben, not Yoda, who says that Luke doesn't know they will die. Yoda says it's difficult to see and Luke could in fact help them if he goes (even if he may throw away what they've fought for if he does it.)

The greater TLJ point that people have a problem with is not Luke's force-sight or whatever and the manipulation it might bring, it's his attitude to a very real-world crisis: that something worthwhile (the rebellion) that could save millions is about to be snuffed out, and he refuses to do anything, even though he knows Leia is with them. It's not a philosophical point.

Even when he does something, what he does is half-hearted and in some ways could be seen as cowardly. There are a whole host of other issues with it - how it's a power never seen before (that could changed the outcome of the OT,) the weirdness of the black beard thing, how aspects of it make no sense (the dice) etc, etc - but those are in some ways less important than the more central issues as defining (or redefining) Luke.

 

[pixletwin]

That’s ok. My mind is the only mind that I mind.

The only thing that really bugged me was Akbar or Lando should have been the ones to go kamikaze on Snoke’s ship.

 

[SilverStar17]

Good points. If you follow pacifism through to its conclusions it presents a lot of philosophical questions. The only one of your points that I feel like I can address:



Yoda correctly pointed out to Luke that he didn’t KNOW they would die should he not intervene. Indeed we can see that Lando, Leia, and Chewie were able to escape just fine. In fact they were in more danger because they had to turn around and save Luke.

Point is Luke knew his greatest weakness was how easily manipulated he could be by his force-sight (or whatever it’s called). So he removed himself from his friends when he realized he posed a greater danger than he could ever protect them from.

When Rey came to the island he saw a way he could help his friends and still hold to his beliefs.

I swore off TLJ debates but still have to voice my appreciation for this great example of how thoughtful analysis of the facts that are actually being presented by the film will always trump "head canon." Good post!

 

[TaliBane]

Its been a pleasure reading these posts....

but your not changing any minds.....the anger is bone deep that Luke didn't save the day and put that "Mary Sue" in her place....

Ugh. It's the "sexist and/or intolerant neck-beard" argument again. It's become the SW equivalent of Godwin's Law.

 

[TonTon]

^^ I see quotes. He must have been quoting you.

 

[TaliBane]

^^ I see quotes. He must have been quoting you.

Well... I'm the only one voicing a negative opinion of TLJ's treatment of Luke in a pretty small group, so it's not safe to assume they're referring to me?

It's a lazy assumption underpinned by a lie, so it has to be called out.

 

[DarkChocobi]

I ordered one SS figure and it was a huge disappointment in hand and had a floppy body that couldn’t hold any poses. It was also nearly the price of a Hot Toys figure.

Never again.

this is true..recently I bought SS TIE pilot + AT-AT driver, the body and the joints were terrible compare to Hot Toys.

 

[pixletwin]

Well... I'm the only one voicing a negative opinion of TLJ's treatment of Luke in a pretty small group, so it's not safe to assume they're referring to me?

It's a lazy assumption underpinned by a lie, so it has to be called out.

Did a post get deleted? I have no idea what is being referenced.

 

[TaliBane]

Did a post get deleted? I have no idea what is being referenced.

The post I quoted is what's being referenced.

It's the inference - or stating outright - that people who had a problem with TLJ did so because they have a problem with diverse main characters: i.e. the same people who denigrate female heroes as "Mary Sues" (a term that itself has a sexism issue) who need to be "put in their place," and infer they need help from male heroes to "save the day."

All of which is present in the post I quoted. No one else in a small group of posters was voicing issues with TLJ, so I felt it was safe to assume the post was directed at me.

this is true..recently I bought SS TIE pilot + AT-AT driver, the body and the joints were terrible compare to Hot Toys.

Yeah, while the arms on my ATAT driver were fine, the legs were a bit floppy in the straight/neutral position to maybe 30 degree "kick" position.

In general though, I've found Sideshow bodies of the last 3 years to be comparable to HT (the jawas being the obvious exception) even if they seem to run tall. Ironic given that the old SSC bodies from about 8 years ago ran quite small, with figures often only 11 1/2" tall.

 

[DarkChocobi]

The post I quoted is what's being referenced.

It's the inference - or stating outright - that people who had a problem with TLJ did so because they have a problem with diverse main characters: i.e. the same people who denigrate female heroes as "Mary Sues" (a term that itself has a sexism issue) who need to be "put in their place," and infer they need help from male heroes to "save the day."

All of which is present in the post I quoted. No one else in a small group of posters was voicing issues with TLJ, so I felt it was safe to assume the post was directed at me.



Yeah, while the arms on my ATAT driver were fine, the legs were a bit floppy in the straight/neutral position to maybe 30 degree "kick" position.

In general though, I've found Sideshow bodies of the last 3 years to be comparable to HT (the jawas being the obvious exception) even if they seem to run tall. Ironic given that the old SSC bodies from about 8 years ago ran quite small, with figures often only 11 1/2" tall.

yeah for those specific troopers type with just very short screening amount of time behind the cockpit there really no need for dynamic pose..so those bad joints really dont bother me that much...theyre still shine damn well with simple pose on the shelves

but in the long run with this such quality and the pricing I will have to seriously consider many other options..

 

[xipotec]

The post I quoted is what's being referenced.

It's the inference - or stating outright - that people who had a problem with TLJ did so because they have a problem with diverse main characters: i.e. the same people who denigrate female heroes as "Mary Sues" (a term that itself has a sexism issue) who need to be "put in their place," and infer they need help from male heroes to "save the day."

All of which is present in the post I quoted. No one else in a small group of posters was voicing issues with TLJ, so I felt it was safe to assume the post was directed at me.



Yeah, while the arms on my ATAT driver were fine, the legs were a bit floppy in the straight/neutral position to maybe 30 degree "kick" position.

In general though, I've found Sideshow bodies of the last 3 years to be comparable to HT (the jawas being the obvious exception) even if they seem to run tall. Ironic given that the old SSC bodies from about 8 years ago ran quite small, with figures often only 11 1/2" tall.

The SSC Jason body was not to hot....I have bought tigger bodies on eBay....


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