Logan (New Wolverine movie March 3rd 2017)

[EVILFACE]

Apocalypse is not bad, just not as good DOFP,FC, X2, and Logan.

It's not bad, they just got a midget playing the most powerful mutant to walk the planet.

 

[ironwez20]

I don't think any xmen movie from here on out will beat Logan for me. Yes I'll still watch those deadpoole movies but that Logan movie man. Such a good ending

 

[KryptoSlush]

It's not bad, they just got a midget playing the most powerful mutant to walk the planet.

I thought it was stupid that the most powerful Jedi was a 900 year-old puppet too. So stupid.

 

[jye4ever]

Logan > FC > DOFP > X2 > X1

And that's amazing because those other 4 are good, even with them lacking in the action dept.

That's what makes Logan so awesome, the rage in the action.

 

[karamazov80]

My biggest gripe with Apocalypse is ironically Apocalypse.

What should have been an 8ft tall [CG] Monster that scared you with his mere presence ended up a 5'6" guy in paint who I never once found menacing.

It's not bad, they just got a midget playing the most powerful mutant to walk the planet.

I thought he was quite good, and wasn't concerned at all about his size personally (same goes for Hardy Bane, which I thought was fine for what he was), though they could have done a better job of explaining his powers, including powers of influence. That would be an out of sorts for Magneto, though getting into his mental state after his family's death I think his raging out at humanity was understandable. The redemption from Charles should not have been handled the way it was though, clearly. They didn't have to be at each others' throats, but their approaches were just as far removed from each other as they were at the beginning of X1, and that wasn't evident.

Logan > FC > DOFP > X2 > X1

And that's amazing because those other 4 are good, even with them lacking in the action dept.

That's what makes Logan so awesome, the rage in the action.

I would probably go X2 > DOFP > First Class > then a mix of X1, Apocalypse, and Logan. Logan is too recent for me to authoritatively rank it, but I really like X1 for the novelty of it, and the introduction to Wolvie was still in my mind the best representation of Wolvie in these films. I also like the classic Brotherhood of Evil Mutants vs. X-Men showdown. Apoc has really good acting despite some of the cheese and convolutedness, has dramatic intensity at times rivaling anything else in the franchise, and gives us scores of classic X-characters in a way that they haven't been shown before. Cyclops in particular finally gets treated with a modicum of respect. Hate hate hate that they misuse and kill off Angel that way, though. He's a founding member of the damn team, and deserves better. Logan is probably the most well made, and effective "film" of all the X-movies. If you were comparing all of these to a non comic film from a film making/storytelling/dramatic point of view, this would be the most favorable. But I wear my fandom on my sleeve, and this kind of story isn't something that makes me nostalgic for the comics. It was appropriate for the character, and is a great addition to the franchise, but at the end of the day, you have Prof X., Wolvie, frickin Caliban, and a little girl Wolverine against the "Reavers," scientist guy, and a Wolverine clone in a dystopian near future. That feels like it belongs in a direct to consumer "What If?" mini-series, but not in the classic X-Men comics. Though as I mentioned before, some of the comics starting in the mid-'80s were pretty damn dour, with Colossus resorting to killing in order to save lives, several X-Men presumed dead for awhile, a massacre of poor ******* mutants living underground, the tragedy of Madelyn Pryor and Rachel Summers, etc.

I disregard Origins and X3 altogether.

 

[pturtle]

I think I'm going to start resenting Logan the same way Difabio resents TDK. It's killing me that people are saying it's better than X2


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[karamazov80]

Well it totally depends on your criteria. If you are looking for a really good movie involving a comic character, hard to argue against Logan. But it's not a great X-Men movie IMO. New Mutants prequel, I guess. And I'm sure you can nitpick Logan to death as many do Dark Knight, though I think that would be unfair to the film given all the things it does so well.

On a side note, we're supposedly getting New Mutants, and we're definitely getting Cable. Anyone know if they're planning to bring Cable in as the leader of that team? Or would he be sticking with an X-Force-type outfit, which only had minor influences from the New Mutants approach?

 

[jye4ever]

I thought he was quite good, and wasn't concerned at all about his size personally (same goes for Hardy Bane, which I thought was fine for what he was), though they could have done a better job of explaining his powers, including powers of influence. That would be an out of sorts for Magneto, though getting into his mental state after his family's death I think his raging out at humanity was understandable. The redemption from Charles should not have been handled the way it was though, clearly. They didn't have to be at each others' throats, but their approaches were just as far removed from each other as they were at the beginning of X1, and that wasn't evident.


I would probably go X2 > DOFP > First Class > then a mix of X1, Apocalypse, and Logan. Logan is too recent for me to authoritatively rank it, but I really like X1 for the novelty of it, and the introduction to Wolvie was still in my mind the best representation of Wolvie in these films. I also like the classic Brotherhood of Evil Mutants vs. X-Men showdown. Apoc has really good acting despite some of the cheese and convolutedness, has dramatic intensity at times rivaling anything else in the franchise, and gives us scores of classic X-characters in a way that they haven't been shown before. Cyclops in particular finally gets treated with a modicum of respect. Hate hate hate that they misuse and kill off Angel that way, though. He's a founding member of the damn team, and deserves better. Logan is probably the most well made, and effective "film" of all the X-movies. If you were comparing all of these to a non comic film from a film making/storytelling/dramatic point of view, this would be the most favorable. But I wear my fandom on my sleeve, and this kind of story isn't something that makes me nostalgic for the comics. It was appropriate for the character, and is a great addition to the franchise, but at the end of the day, you have Prof X., Wolvie, frickin Caliban, and a little girl Wolverine against the "Reavers," scientist guy, and a Wolverine clone in a dystopian near future. That feels like it belongs in a direct to consumer "What If?" mini-series, but not in the classic X-Men comics. Though as I mentioned before, some of the comics starting in the mid-'80s were pretty damn dour, with Colossus resorting to killing in order to save lives, several X-Men presumed dead for awhile, a massacre of poor ******* mutants living underground, the tragedy of Madelyn Pryor and Rachel Summers, etc.

I disregard Origins and X3 altogether.

As usual from you an excellent breakdown of the franchise and comic history behind it.

Yeah Logan is a contained smaller personal story but I loved it how the explanation of what happened to the XM unfolded in a way that added emotional depth to Xavier and Logan.

 

[pturtle]

Well it totally depends on your criteria. If you are looking for a really good movie involving a comic character, hard to argue against Logan. But it's not a great X-Men movie IMO. New Mutants prequel, I guess. And I'm sure you can nitpick Logan to death as many do Dark Knight, though I think that would be unfair to the film given all the things it does so well.

On a side note, we're supposedly getting New Mutants, and we're definitely getting Cable. Anyone know if they're planning to bring Cable in as the leader of that team? Or would he be sticking with an X-Force-type outfit, which only had minor influences from the New Mutants approach?

I believe they are. It's been confirmed that Cable and Deadpool in the movie and I think it was confirmed that Cable will be the leader.

My thing with Logan is I feel like it's a great Wolverine movie, just not a great movie. X2 to me is a great X-Men movie and a great movie. I know a lot of aesthetic choices and grounding some characters too much turn a lot of the red community off but I just think that movie is borderline perfect.

 

[jye4ever]

Perfect except for PG Wolverine.

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

I believe they are. It's been confirmed that Cable and Deadpool in the movie and I think it was confirmed that Cable will be the leader.

My thing with Logan is I feel like it's a great Wolverine movie, just not a great movie. X2 to me is a great X-Men movie and a great movie. I know a lot of aesthetic choices and grounding some characters too much turn a lot of the red community off but I just think that movie is borderline perfect.

If it makes you feel any better, Logan has been out for less than 2 weeks, and it's already culturally irrelevant and totally forgotten

It's all about the stupid monkey and Disney's CGI Beast movie.

 

[SNIKT1950]

We're supposedly getting New Mutants, and we're definitely getting Cable. Anyone know if they're planning to bring Cable in as the leader of that team? Or would he be sticking with an X-Force-type outfit, which only had minor influences from the New Mutants approach?

He's been confirmed for both Leitch's Deadpool 2 & Carnahan's X-Force.

McAvoy will lead Boone's 90s-set New Mutants.

But Cable's a time traveler so there's always room for him to interact with the 90s teams.

 

[jye4ever]

If it makes you feel any better, Logan has been out for less than 2 weeks, and it's already culturally irrelevant and totally forgotten

It's all about the stupid monkey and Disney's CGI Beast movie.

Would you place TDK in the same league as Wizard of Oz, Casablanca and Gone with the Wind?

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Would you place TDK in the same league as Wizard of Oz, Casablanca and Gone with the Wind?

No.

I have trouble comparing modern films to old classics.

Those 3 films have been around for so long and have influenced so many movies, that it's not fair for a modern film to have the same impact.

Those 3 films, are still culturally relevant after 70 years. Casablanca has more famous quotes than any movie in film history. The Wizard of Oz, was a great fantasy and every frame of that film is iconic....even the songs and ALL the characters are iconic. And then there's Gone with the Wind, which is just as famous. I would also include in that list Erorl Flynn's Robin Hood, the original King Kong film, and The Searchers.

Superhero films are what the western genre used to be, so 30 or 40 years from now, the very best superhero films might be seen as "classics" or influential to future films.

TDK is almost 10 years old already, but it still feels fresh, new merchandise is still being made despite having to compete with alternate versions of the same brand (Arkham games and DCEU), so we'll see if TDK can maintain that level of relevance in another 10 years. It's tough, because there will always be a new Batman franchise.

 

[pturtle]

If it makes you feel any better, Logan has been out for less than 2 weeks, and it's already culturally irrelevant and totally forgotten

It's all about the stupid monkey and Disney's CGI Beast movie.

I do get that feeling that it's already seems to be forgotten.

 

[karamazov80]

He's been confirmed for both Leitch's Deadpool 2 & Carnahan's X-Force.

McAvoy will lead Boone's 90s-set New Mutants.

But Cable's a time traveler so there's always room for him to interact with the 90s teams.

Thanks. I haven't been following. Xavier was originally the leader of the New Mutants, so that makes sense. Be interesting to bring Magneto in at some point. . .I hope we get Warlock.

No.

I have trouble comparing modern films to old classics.

Those 3 films have been around for so long and have influenced so many movies, that it's not fair for a modern film to have the same impact.

Those 3 films, are still culturally relevant after 70 years. Casablanca has more famous quotes than any movie in film history. The Wizard of Oz, was a great fantasy and every frame of that film is iconic....even the songs and ALL the characters are iconic. And then there's Gone with the Wind, which is just as famous. I would also include in that list Erorl Flynn's Robin Hood, the original King Kong film, and The Searchers.

Superhero films are what the western genre used to be, so 30 or 40 years from now, the very best superhero films might be seen as "classics" or influential to future films.

TDK is almost 10 years old already, but it still feels fresh, new merchandise is still being made despite having to compete with alternate versions of the same brand (Arkham games and DCEU), so we'll see if TDK can maintain that level of relevance in another 10 years. It's tough, because there will always be a new Batman franchise.

I agree with you here. Nothing will ever compare to the real classics anymore, unless they do something that fundamentally changes the game in ways we haven't thought of yet (i.e., something way more important and novel than what Cameron is doing with Avatar or what have you). And that's because the novelty is gone. Everything is extremely derivative at this point of something else in one or more ways, and we've seen everything under the sun from Salvador Dali and Andy Warhol making films, to Naked Lunch and the Elephant Man, to Adam Sandler/Kevin James/DC Extended Universe/Carrot Top movies, and everything in-between.

But in the last 20 years, I don't know that many movies have had more of a cultural impact than Dark Knight. I might be forgetting something, but even the most highly critically acclaimed movies like There Will Be Blood just kind of get mixed in with various other, highly critically acclaimed movies. In the '90s we had Pulp Fiction, Big Lebowski, Jurassic Park, and a few others that really stand out and are remembered. But from the 2000's on? Maybe Dark Knight, Lord of the Rings, and to a lesser extent, the Avengers are the high water marks culturally speaking. Edit: I guess those romantic vampire and Harry Potter movies also fit, as I'm giving it more thought, though they aren't my thing.

 

[jye4ever]

I might not like Deadpool but I have to give it to Fox for their one two cinematic punch recovery after Apoc.

Forgotten or not its still all Marvel characters.

The real story here is poor poor DC.

 

[EVILFACE]

Pffft. This summer is gonna be all about the cute WW and Capt. Kirk romance!

 

[karamazov80]

Just wait until Feige realizes what a goldmine he could have on his hands with the Squadron Supreme. . .doing what DC should be doing!

 

[The Clown Prince of Crime]

Thanks. I haven't been following. Xavier was originally the leader of the New Mutants, so that makes sense. Be interesting to bring Magneto in at some point. . .I hope we get Warlock.


I agree with you here. Nothing will ever compare to the real classics anymore, unless they do something that fundamentally changes the game in ways we haven't thought of yet (i.e., something way more important and novel than what Cameron is doing with Avatar or what have you). And that's because the novelty is gone. Everything is extremely derivative at this point of something else in one or more ways, and we've seen everything under the sun from Salvador Dali and Andy Warhol making films, to Naked Lunch and the Elephant Man, to Adam Sandler/Kevin James/DC Extended Universe/Carrot Top movies, and everything in-between.

But in the last 20 years, I don't know that many movies have had more of a cultural impact than Dark Knight. I might be forgetting something, but even the most highly critically acclaimed movies like There Will Be Blood just kind of get mixed in with various other, highly critically acclaimed movies. In the '90s we had Pulp Fiction, Big Lebowski, Jurassic Park, and a few others that really stand out and are remembered. But from the 2000's on? Maybe Dark Knight, Lord of the Rings, and to a lesser extent, the Avengers are the high water marks culturally speaking. Edit: I guess those romantic vampire and Harry Potter movies also fit, as I'm giving it more thought, though they aren't my thing.

If I had to pick the single or maybe the two most groundbreaking, influential, and impactful films on the US film industry film in the last 27 years (1990-2017), it would be Toy Story (1995)and Toy Story 2 (1999).

Sounds like a joke, but TS was the first full length CGI film, and it single handedly killed traditional animation, and 20 years later, the box office is dominated by CGI animated films from all major studios.


Then there is TS2, which doesn't seem that important, but again, it changed the industry by becoming the first truly successful theatrical animated sequel, which wasn't common at all before TS2. Now, it's expected for successful animated films to become franchises and have sequels, but that wasn't the case until TS2. Disney rarely made theatrical sequels to their animated films...maybe only one, and it failed. The rest were low quality sequels with poor animation made for VHS.

So I know for a lot of people, Pulp Fiction was a big deal, and it influenced numerous films, especially in the 90's, but long term speaking, I think TS has been more impactful.