Media Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain & Ground Zeroes

[ronri]

It's like asking "Is Snake gay?" of course you'll get the answer "no". Why not just say no on this one?

You sure about that?

 

[Jameson Rook]

You sure about that?

Solid Snake? Yes. Big Boss? Hey I'm not saying anything but..

 

[Frank Jaeger]

Solid is and always will be Snake

Big Boss will never be Snake and will always be Big Boss, regardless of Kojima trying to make it so

 

[ronri]

Solid is and always will be Snake

Big Boss will never be Snake and will always be Big Boss, regardless of Kojima trying to make it so

Even with the "Snake" moniker still being used, Kojima tends to make that distinction fairly clearly by saying how Snake would've always done things differently than BB (i.e. not screw it up like BB ended up doing). If anything, saying that Big Boss was a "Snake" just wraps the whole series in a nice thematic cyclical nature with the snake motif actually becoming more relevant to the story. While one might have qualms against the writing of Big Boss's character and why he keeps sticking to using "Snake" as his codename, I always thought that Kojima only ended up sticking with the name after PW as a marketing tactic.

Also no offense, but statements like these just scream of blind nostalgia to me.

 

[J3D1_KN1GHT]

They should have added this to Jamais Vu:

They did that with the fox engine so I doubt they threw that away, the sword should be an option in that mission but... oh well, if it wasn't for that I wouldn't have played MGR so I can't hate that mission

You sir, should make games!

 

[Snake Plissken]

Solid is and always will be Snake

Big Boss will never be Snake and will always be Big Boss, regardless of Kojima trying to make it so

I don't understand why he refuses to make him Big Boss and keeps him with Snake's name. It's like 3 games overdue at this point for him to drop the Snake title.

 

[Jameson Rook]

I don't understand why he refuses to make him Big Boss and keeps him with Snake's name. It's like 3 games overdue at this point for him to drop the Snake title.

Nano..

..FIDDLES man! F'king fiddles!

 

[Frank Jaeger]

The only reason Big Boss ever became 'Snake' is because they needed to make the MGS3 Big Boss as similar to Solid Snake as possible to stop more fan outcry after MGS2

Big Boss, was never ever known as Snake until MGS3, as has been known as that even since, when he isn't he's Big Boss

I don't understand why he refuses to make him Big Boss and keeps him with Snake's name. It's like 3 games overdue at this point for him to drop the Snake title.

 

[J3D1_KN1GHT]

Nana-machines?
I blame my mams, mam for everything!

 

[Snake Plissken]

The only reason Big Boss ever became 'Snake' is because they needed to make the MGS3 Big Boss as similar to Solid Snake as possible to stop more fan outcry after MGS2

Big Boss, was never ever known as Snake until MGS3, as has been known as that even since, when he isn't he's Big Boss

Definitely. He's the real clone, not Snake.

 

[pturtle]

Even with the "Snake" moniker still being used, Kojima tends to make that distinction fairly clearly by saying how Snake would've always done things differently than BB (i.e. not screw it up like BB ended up doing). If anything, saying that Big Boss was a "Snake" just wraps the whole series in a nice thematic cyclical nature with the snake motif actually becoming more relevant to the story. While one might have qualms against the writing of Big Boss's character and why he keeps sticking to using "Snake" as his codename, I always thought that Kojima only ended up sticking with the name after PW as a marketing tactic.

Also no offense, but statements like these just scream of blind nostalgia to me.

Perfectly said, I don't know why it bothers anyone that he still goes by Snake. We know eventually he'll only be known as Big Boss, even if it's just or marketing, who's it hurting?

I just hope Kojima makes him go full evil, that's actually what's important to the character, story, and what really separates him from Solid.


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[Henry Morgan*]

Even with the "Snake" moniker still being used, Kojima tends to make that distinction fairly clearly by saying how Snake would've always done things differently than BB (i.e. not screw it up like BB ended up doing). If anything, saying that Big Boss was a "Snake" just wraps the whole series in a nice thematic cyclical nature with the snake motif actually becoming more relevant to the story. While one might have qualms against the writing of Big Boss's character and why he keeps sticking to using "Snake" as his codename, I always thought that Kojima only ended up sticking with the name after PW as a marketing tactic.

Also no offense, but statements like these just scream of blind nostalgia to me.

... mh no, I would use a different word because that sounded like a long time fan talking.

People relate the name Snake to Metal Gear, using that name as a marketing tactic makes sense, but I love Big Boss honestly I don't care how they call the characters anymore... even if they call Snake ''Solid Egg'' and Big Boss ''Original Egg'' I wouldn't care, they are very different characters in my mind

 

[pturtle]

... mh no, I would use a different word because that sounded like a long time fan talking.

People relate the name Snake to Metal Gear, using that name as a marketing tactic makes sense, but I love Big Boss honestly I don't care how they call the characters they are all very different in my mind

Yup, who cares about a name, there's four damn Snakes all together, that name hasn't been exclusive for quite sometime now. Their motives is what's important, as long as Big Boss is recruiting child Soldiers and doing some horrible crap, then I'm happy.


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[Henry Morgan*]

Yup, who cares about a name, there's four damn Snakes all together, that name hasn't been exclusive for quite sometime now. Their motives is what's important, as long as Big Boss is recruiting child Soldiers and doing some horrible crap, then I'm happy.


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Don't forget sexy time with Quiet

 

[pturtle]

HAha, I wouldn't put it past Kojima. If we don't get a release date at E3 I might cry.

By the way Henry, did you end up seeing Spider-Man?


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[Henry Morgan*]

nope ...I couldn't bring myself to see it...

but I saw what happens to the Blondie..

 

[ronri]

... mh no, I would use a different word because that sounded like a long time fan talking.

Maybe I'm being too harsh and I apologize for that, I'm just somewhat reminded of how some fans tend to dismiss Raiden as a Gray Fox-wannabe just because "oh, he's not the REAL cyborg ninja" and it came across the same way, albeit more to do with names than archetypes (Gray Fox was my all-time favorite way back, but that kind of sentiment among the fans really alienated me like hell). Perhaps I'm just too entrenched into the side commentary and the source material, but it's just that for me, not once have I seen Kojima propagating Big Boss as the very same "Snake" as Solid Snake. He makes it pretty clear that Big Boss is still Big Boss especially in his side commentaries for MGS3. Sure, he may hold some favoritism over BB now, but he always paints BB in a negative light when comparing him to Snake (the guy probably has a thing for "tragic" characters). Heck, the very reason he even included James Bond as an element in MGS3 (beyond finding it rather fitting for the times) is because of how he modeled the original BB after the late Sean Connery and thought it ironic to dress up a younger BB in suit like James Bond.

Yes, we know Big Boss =/= Solid Snake, so waving our arms around how BB being "revealed" as a Snake shouldn't be a big deal. Calling Big Boss a "Snake" doesn't really take anything away from Solid Snake (aside from the stupidly clueless folks that could never tell between the two anyway) so I don't see why it's such a huge fuss. Saying that the "only" reason that BB ever got called a "Snake" just to make him similar to Snake is ridiculous, especially considering the number of times Kojima has used snakes as a recurring motif post-MGS3 beyond just slapping it onto Big Boss. It's not so much I'm praising Kojima here, rather I find the sentiment of disliking the idea Big Boss being "previously" codenamed as a "Snake" to be downright ridiculous and bordering on nostalgic fanaticism. It's literally one of the least nonsensical things Kojima had brought into the plot, and one that actually reinforces the Snake motif on a thematic level.

 

[pturtle]

nope ...I couldn't bring myself to see it...

but I saw what happened to the Blondie..

Hahaha, you should check it out, I thought it was quite decent. The ending was pretty sad, have your napkins ready.


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[Henry Morgan*]

Ok... I'll do that, I might bring a bottle of scotch just in case its too sad

Maybe I'm being too harsh and I apologize for that, I'm just somewhat reminded of how some fans tend to dismiss Raiden as a Gray Fox-wannabe just because "oh, he's not the REAL cyborg ninja" and it came across the same way, albeit more to do with names than archetypes. Perhaps I'm just too entrenched into the side commentary and the source material, but it's just that for me, not once have I seen Kojima propagating Big Boss as the very same "Snake" as Solid Snake. He makes it pretty clear that Big Boss is still Big Boss especially in his side commentaries for MGS3. Sure, he may hold some favoritism over BB now, but he always paints BB in a negative light when comparing him to Snake (the guy probably has a thing for "tragic" characters). Heck, the very reason he even included James Bond as an element in MGS3 (beyond finding it rather fitting for the times) is because of how he modeled the original BB after the late Sean Connery.

It's like yeah, we know Big Boss =/= Solid Snake, so waving our arms around BB being "revealed" as a Snake shouldn't be a big deal. Calling Big Boss a "Snake" doesn't really take anything away from Solid Snake (aside from the clueless that could never tell between the two anyway) so I don't see why it's such a huge fuss. Saying that the "only" reason that BB ever got called a "Snake" just to make him similar to Snake is ridiculous, especially considering the number of times Kojima has used the snake as a recurring motif beyond just slapping it onto Big Boss. It's not so much I'm praising Kojima here, rather I find the sentiment of disliking the idea Big Boss being "previously" codenamed as a Snake to be downright ridiculous and bordering on nostalgic fanaticism. It's literally one of the least nonsensical things Kojima had brought into the plot, and one that actually reinforces the Snake motif on a thematic level.

Thankfully I never heard people comparing Gray Fox to Raiden, they are both great characters, and Kojima knew well what he was doing in MGS4...

Snake was always a clone and of BB thats why I don't care about the similarities, I do care about the differences... that make the characters instresting. Anyway I agree with everything you said

 

[ronri]

Yup, who cares about a name, there's four damn Snakes all together, that name hasn't been exclusive for quite sometime now. Their motives is what's important, as long as Big Boss is recruiting child Soldiers and doing some horrible crap, then I'm happy.

My sentiments exactly. I don't care for Kojima sticking to using "Snake" as BB's codename, I'd just like to see BB doing horrible stuff by MGSV. Contrary to what I see people mentioning here, PW already had me viewing Big Boss in a questionable light, and that has little to do with him coming into conflict with Zero. Listening to his conversations and how he literally finds thrill and glory in the battlefield might be one thing, but outright rejecting the idealistic notions of The Boss just because he felt butt-hurt about her "betraying" him as a soldier definitely made me raise an eyebrow. Heck, it's hilarious that by the end in one of the Briefing Files Strangelove understood The Boss's final will so quickly when it took BB like what? Multiple games until he died in MGS4 to fully understand it? Big Boss's mentality in PW's ending is already Big Boss as we knew him (seriously, who welcomes a 12-13 year old kid into his army like it's some kind of blessing?) rather his actions just need to reflect those ideals come MGSV; which I think is the most crucial part that Kojima really needs to tackle in TPP.