Hot Toys MMS 446 - The Last Jedi Rey (Jedi Training)

[DioramaMaker]

Look, I actually was really ok with Rey after the Force Awakens. I liked her character "ok" and the fact she was a girl did not bother me at all. (ok, the Ace Falcon flying from jump and the "mind control scene" did really push the suspension of disbelief,....but I played along)

I was as excited to see where her character was going as anyone. I anticipated 'The Last Jedi' more than any film in my life previously.

After 'Looper' I really though Rian Johnson was going to pull something special off. I though the script from 'Looper' had great writing and showed his ability to craft a film with layers. I was literally telling anyone who would listen 'The Last Jedi' IS GOING TO BE AWESOME BECAUSE I BELIEVE RIAN JOHNSON CAN WRITE SOMETHING NEXT LEVEL. I went opening weekend with 2 of my best friends and my wife and was anticipating something amazing and historic in it's own right.

Unfortunately, the film contained many of the things I just referenced. Problem is, they were done in a way akin to shaving against the grain with a dull razor.

Johnson completely mis-handled a great opportunity to really galvanize Rey's character in the hearts and minds of fans. Period.

He also undermined the lore and mythology of the basic story while writing in characters who motivations served little to no purpose.

This definitely caught me off guard, it's really different from your normal responses here.

I can definitely sympathize with you about being hyped up and then less than thrilled with the results. Believe me, I'll be the first to say I don't think TLJ is perfect, but I do still like it.

It's hard to justify some of the creative positions, and the pseudo-political jargon that they interject. One of the best comments I've ever read was that the film feels like you're watching people that you know dealing with problems in everyday life - and OT Star Wars feels removed from that.

And I do think Johnson's insistence on ambiguity with Rey was a misstep becahse Rey really has the potential to be the one of the most interesting characters in this series. And for what it's worth, JJs direction can fix a lot of that. This idea that narrative can just be picked up by two subsequent individually is a technical faulty that wouldn't have occurred had JJ stayed at the helm. The narrative shift makes this a hard sell because you're expecting someone with totally different narrative intent to carry on a story. It's a trainwreck of an idea from the start. But I do like the Rey and Luke interactions and that's something I don't think poorly of at all.

So in the end, I guess what I want to say is that I sympathize with your position even if I don't share it completely. And I get where you're coming from as a disappointed fan entirely.

 

[RandomHero]

It blows my mind that Leila in space bothers people. There’s no mass in space. If you can pull an object to you with the force while under gravity, then you can pull yourself to an object in space.

There's no mass in space, but you know what else is missing in space? Air. Heat. Anyone who ends up in space without some kind of suit would be dead in seconds. I mean, you literally see Leia start to crystalize! It's an entirely absurd, unbelievable scene, even in a fantasy setting. You can explain how the Force works or how Captain America has unlimited stamina or how Sauron could wield the One Ring, but I'm sorry, you can never explain how someone can not be dead in a matter of seconds with their bare skin out in space.

 

[Turtle882]

There's no mass in space, but you know what else is missing in space? Air. Heat. Anyone who ends up in space without some kind of suit would be dead in seconds. I mean, you literally see Leia start to crystalize! It's an entirely absurd, unbelievable scene, even in a fantasy setting. You can explain how the Force works or how Captain America has unlimited stamina or how Sauron could wield the One Ring, but I'm sorry, you can never explain how someone can not be dead in a matter of seconds with their bare skin out in space.

I thought the Thrawn books did a fairly good job of explaining how Luke did that. Limited vacuum survival isn't a new force power, and it's not like Leia is completely unscathed by the ordeal either. It's absurd, but so is... everything about Star Wars. Good thing I don't watch SW movies for physics lessons.

 

[Turtle882]

I'll add, though, that despite my love for TLJ, that segment could have been done better. Yondu pulls off the Mary Poppins thing way better.

 

[subzro]

There's no mass in space, but you know what else is missing in space? Air. Heat. Anyone who ends up in space without some kind of suit would be dead in seconds. I mean, you literally see Leia start to crystalize! It's an entirely absurd, unbelievable scene, even in a fantasy setting. You can explain how the Force works or how Captain America has unlimited stamina or how Sauron could wield the One Ring, but I'm sorry, you can never explain how someone can not be dead in a matter of seconds with their bare skin out in space.

The same way someone gets angry and turns into a big green monster, a hammer that can only be lifted by a few worthy people, someone who can run so fast they can time travel or a fancy glove that can destroy half of the life in the universe. The Leia scene made more sense to me than 70% of the stuff that happens in these movies. I try not to think about it to much and just enjoy the ride.

 

[RandomHero]

Look, at the end of the day, these movies are supposed to entertain and let us tap into our imaginations...something that seems to happen less and less these days. Like you guys, I try not to read into things in superhero/supernatural movies. These movies are supposed to be fun, and I think a lot of people forget that. That said, I just couldn't get over the notion of someone free floating through space. If you guys were ok with it, I'm not criticizing you. I just found it entirely absurd and that was one of those rare moments that took me out of a movie because I just found it so stupid.

I enjoy everything from Star Wars through Marvel, DC, Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, The Walking Dead, Assassin's Creed, Uncharted, The Last of Us, you name it. I can buy into the story and just enjoy stepping outside my world filled with headaches and into a fantasy world that's a different experience for a while. I'm not hating for no reason. The Leia thing was just stupid. I hated it and it left a bad taste in my mouth.

 

[RandomHero]

I thought the Thrawn books did a fairly good job of explaining how Luke did that. Limited vacuum survival isn't a new force power, and it's not like Leia is completely unscathed by the ordeal either. It's absurd, but so is... everything about Star Wars. Good thing I don't watch SW movies for physics lessons.

The old Thrawn books or the new Thrawn books? I thought the old ones aren't canon anymore. It's also been forever since I've read them, I honestly don't remember Luke surviving in space. If it happened in the new books...I haven't gotten around to reading them yet. I used to be all about reading the Star Wars books...Rogue Squadron was my favorite book series because I've always loved Wedge so much. Maybe I'm bitter because a few of my all time favorite Star Wars characters (Kyle Katarn, Satele Shan, Dash Rendar and Corran Horn) no longer exist. Hopefully Disney brings them back in some capacity, although I guess Katarn is kind of screwed at this point. Still, I have to read the new Thrawn stuff. I'm happy he survived into the canon lore.

 

[Turtle882]

It's in one of the now noncannon books, and it's a very short amount of time. So I know it doesn't count, but it's not something entirely new either. The new Thrawn is very good. I haven't read the second one yet. He kicks ass in Rebels too.

 

[WesMordine]

The same way someone gets angry and turns into a big green monster, a hammer that can only be lifted by a few worthy people, someone who can run so fast they can time travel or a fancy glove that can destroy half of the life in the universe. The Leia scene made more sense to me than 70% of the stuff that happens in these movies. I try not to think about it to much and just enjoy the ride.

Indeed.

Any new video reviews of the figure yet?

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[SilverStar17]

The same way someone gets angry and turns into a big green monster, a hammer that can only be lifted by a few worthy people, someone who can run so fast they can time travel or a fancy glove that can destroy half of the life in the universe. The Leia scene made more sense to me than 70% of the stuff that happens in these movies. I try not to think about it to much and just enjoy the ride.

I'll bet Hulk and The Flash wouldn't survive if exposed to the coldness of space. I think the writers for those films understand that'd be going a bit too far.

Though I do understand what you're saying. I'm the same way where I just watch films with the purpose of being entertained. However, I concur with RH that I thought the spacewalk, was a little dumb. I felt there could have been several other ways to demonstrate Leia's connection with the Force.

To be frank, I had a bigger issue with the bombs being able to free fall in open space at the beginning of the film than I did with Leia's spacewalk.

 

[Khev]

We all have our limits as to what we'll accept. I wasn't upset by the space walk but her opening the door to an oxygen filled hallway with tons of people on the other side always gives me a good chuckle, lol.

 

[WesMordine]

We all have our limits as to what we'll accept. I wasn't upset by the space walk but her opening the door to an oxygen filled hallway with tons of people on the other side always gives me a good chuckle, lol.

That wasn't shown. She reaches the door and they cut to her on the stretcher.

Btw, the bombs are not falling as if by gravity. The bomber pushes them in order, one row after another, downwards. This could be because the bombers are designed to work in space and atmosferic scenarios. The cute girl has to press the button for them to be launched.

It is also revealed in the novelization that Leia is badly injured by the exposition to vacuum. This will most likely allow to an opening crawl writeoff of her character, since IX will take place several years after VIII.

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[Khev]

That wasn't shown.

Yes it actually was. They literally showed the doors between her and everyone else starting to open before then cutting away.

 

[RandomHero]

Apparently, the bombs had a magnetic casing and were drawn to the ship that way. That's why they had to be directly over the First Order ship, so they wouldn't hit other fighters and take them out instead.

 

[SilverStar17]

Ah ok, I wasn't privy of that detail.

Leia's spacewalk is bumped back up to #1 then.

 

[subzro]

Would it have changed anyones mind if it was Luke that did it instead of Leia? I know a lot of fans wanted Luke using the force to pull star destroyers out of the sky so a space walk would have been childs play.

 

[TonTon]

Would it have changed anyones mind if it was Luke that did it instead of Leia? I know a lot of fans wanted Luke using the force to pull star destroyers out of the sky so a space walk would have been childs play.

It looked totally dumb the way she just floated through space, that was the main issue. They probably could have even made it work better if it wasn't so drawn out, but really people complained endlessly about how Rey didn't learn the force yet suddenly wields it like an expert when needed, so Leia's use is in line with that complaint and therefore a bit problematic as well. All we've seen in previous films is her ability to sense things.

It would have been less an issue with most fans though if it was Luke, since he has obviously been shown to be capable of using the force time and time again. But if it looked just as dumb it wouldn't have been much better.

 

[WesMordine]

It looked totally dumb the way she just floated through space, that was the main issue. They probably could have even made it work better if it wasn't so drawn out, but really people complained endlessly about how Rey didn't learn the force yet suddenly wields it like an expert when needed, so Leia's use is in line with that complaint and therefore a bit problematic as well. All we've seen in previous films is her ability to sense things.

It would have been less an issue with most fans though if it was Luke, since he has obviously been shown to be capable of using the force time and time again. But if it looked just as dumb it wouldn't have been much better.

30 year gap between 6 and 7-8.

Being limited by what we saw 30 years ago is what's dumb...IMHO.

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[TonTon]

We’ve seen other movies in that span to know what looks silly on screen and what doesn’t.

 

[hen88]

yeah.. but. If Poe hadn't broken orders in the first place there would have been 100% casualties, as the dreadnaught would have obliterated everyone.
It's just such a messy narrative. It's very "last jedi" story telling, i want to make an external (possibly PC) point - I don't care about logic or narrative - you will follow my story lead. Well, I.. for one don't, and expect better writing. I love these characters, even the new ones. I want to be on board.

Every male in TLJ is weak, evil, misguided and has to be shown a lesson by a female. Prove me otherwise. That's very substandard sexist writing. It's 2018. We need better if we really want to break down racist and sexist stereotypes in movies.

Is that what is so triggering about TLJ? Because deeply flawed male characters fail and learn lessons? I don’t think that’s sexist. Why do men always need to see other male heroes to identify with in movies? I’m a man, and I can identify with aspects of Rey, Leia, Rose, and Holdo. And I’ve been taught many valuable lessons from the women in my life. There’s nothing wrong with showing failure and learning by men in films. If anything it’s more of a stereotype to show the all powerful male hero who saves the day and gets the girl in the end. I’m fine with showing male vulnerability. It doesn’t bother me.