Media Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain & Ground Zeroes

[pturtle]

Reinvention - reboot

Pretty much the same thing there except he's not starting from the beginning - in fact technically he sort of is. He could essentially ruin the entire MGS timeline from this game. He could render Solid Snake totally pointless right now

If BB does not become a tyrant then yes, essentially the game will have been rebooted

Or he could make Big Boss a demon, which falls in line with everything they’ve shown. It seems you’re confirming a lot of things about this game that would be impossible for you to know right now. I would just wait and see how the story plays out before condemning it.

 

[Solidus]

Reinvention - reboot

Pretty much the same thing there except he's not starting from the beginning - in fact technically he sort of is. He could essentially ruin the entire MGS timeline from this game. He could render Solid Snake totally pointless right now

If BB does not become a tyrant then yes, essentially the game will have been rebooted

In a lot of ways, this game (or rather, MGS V as a whole) is just a re-labling of "Project Ogre". Kojima never got a chance to make his new IP, so he merged it into the MGS universe - and hence, it's the "reboot" of the series, as he likes to call it. From what I've seen in the game-play videos, I can't help but feel that there's a blatant disconnect between this game and the others in the series. On the surface, it looks like MGS Peace Walker, but there are so many things in the game-play - or lack thereof (eg. exclusion of cardboard boxes, wall knocking, somersaults, etc), that takes away from the overall experience of what you'd expect from a MGS game. Of course, this is in addition to the overall tone of the storyline, that just seems overly weird and dark.

There's a part of me that's trying desperately to find some redeeming qualities about MGS V. But, so far, there are few and far between.

 

[Frank Jaeger]

I'm not sure what you mean by make big boss a demon?


That would essentially make him bad, they can't make him bad now because they've already made him good.

I'm not 'confirming' anything. Just formulating opinions based on the franchises direction, past choices and what it's shown of MGSV so far.

Mantis may fit into it fine but it's still lazy writing regardless. Use another character from the best game I made from this franchise which doesn't even have anything to do with the character this games about. I'll throw I'm in because he's hot that paranormal thing going on - is exactly how I envision the use of Mantis

 

[Frank Jaeger]

I'm sorry no, creating one corky character doesn't stand for the overall games corky character tone that the rest had. Quiet seems to be created as she is for that purpose so the game has one. Not to mention the female sniper thing has been done before aka MGS1

The stories base is there yes but it's flawed. It's a continuation of the weakest MGS title PW, which was the weakest sequel In the series. Which is a shame because that branches from the 2nd strongest in the series so yeah. My point stands fine

I forgot about Volgin so my comment of rehashed characters was based solely at mantis, which I my reply was aimed at so you were putting words I my mouth

I can make assumptions based on previous games. Sure I can't 100% say mantis is lazy writing but the idea of throwing him in there was lazy to start with

Yeah, I suppose you don't think Quiet is beyond corky? She is right in your face corky, from the rest of the characters we really don't know but Quite leaves the door open and shows that the corkiness is not lost, so it supports my point over yours.

So the story's basis are there, that was my point, another core aspect.

Kojima never said this was a reboot, and everything else points out that it IS true to the series, and it's the other way around; He didn't change enough to justify saying it's not a "true MGS".

We were talking about the supernatural aspect and you said something along the lines that they were uninspired rehashes of old characters, there are only 2 characters that fit that topic, Volgin and Mantis, I'm not putting words in your mouth, I was explaining why they aren't uninspired choices and as well as calling the dream Wale and Mantis lazy writing is completely invalid since we don't even have a hint of context.

 

[pturtle]

In a lot of ways, this game (or rather, MGS V as a whole) is just a re-labling of "Project Ogre". Kojima never got a chance to make his new IP, so he merged it into the MGS universe - and hence, it's the "reboot" of the series, as he likes to call it. From what I've seen in the game-play videos, I can't help but feel that there's a blatant disconnect between this game and the others in the series. On the surface, it looks like MGS Peace Walker, but there are so many things in the game-play - or lack thereof (eg. exclusion of cardboard boxes, wall knocking, somersaults, etc), that takes away from the overall experience of what you'd expect from a MGS game. Of course, this is in addition to the overall tone of the storyline, that just seems overly weird and dark.

There's a part of me that's trying desperately to find some redeeming qualities about Ground Zeroes. But, so far, there are few and far between.

I actually agree with most of this. Only part I disagree with is, I see a ton of great things about the game, and I’m happy to see the series evolve into something a bit darker. I’m okay with change, only if there is good reason for it. In this case, I think everything Kojima has done with this game isn’t for any other reason then to try make the best game he can possibly make. I doubt anyone here doesn’t think MGSV is an ambitious project.

 

[GasparZizou]

@Solidus
How can you possibly know what parts of his project Ogre where implemented here?

And he never said it was a reboot.

Regarding the gameplay, it is clear that the main core mechanics are still there, only a handful of small features have been added or removed, some of which are either temporary or even optional.

It's pretty obvious that what stayed is way more than what got changed.

@Frank

Yet, the story elements surrounding Mantis haven't even been revealed, and probably won't be for another half year or more, so what is exactly "lazy writing" based on?

 

[pturtle]

I'm not sure what you mean by make big boss a demon?


That would essentially make him bad, they can't make him bad now because they've already made him good.

I'm not 'confirming' anything. Just formulating opinions based on the franchises direction, past choices and what it's shown of MGSV so far.

Mantis may fit into it fine but it's still lazy writing regardless. Use another character from the best game I made from this franchise which doesn't even have anything to do with the character this games about. I'll throw I'm in because he's hot that paranormal thing going on - is exactly how I envision the use of Mantis

When did they make him good? All he did was understand all his horrible mistakes, this game is going to show us those horrible mistakes.

 

[Henry Morgan*]

I want to know a bit more about Mantis and this is a perfect chance, there is a lot of things that can be shown imho

When did they make him good? All he did was understand all his horrible mistakes, this game is going to show us those horrible mistakes.

This series showed people with good intetions but in the end many of them ****ed up, Big Boss, Zero.. and others. I doubt there is a real classic hero in this series imho, that depends on your point of view.

Big Boss did terrible things for a good cause, that doesn't make him a hero, on the contrary imho

 

[GasparZizou]

I'm sorry no, creating one corky character doesn't stand for the overall games corky character tone that the rest had. Quiet seems to be created as she is for that purpose so the game has one. Not to mention the female sniper thing has been done before aka MGS1

I said we know that at least ONE character is corky and we don't know about the rest, so the door is open for more, but that one character proves that the corkiness is not gone, it is irrelevant if the sniper thing has been done before.

The stories base is there yes but it's flawed. It's a continuation of the weakest MGS title PW, which was the weakest sequel In the series. Which is a shame because that branches from the 2nd strongest in the series so yeah. My point stands fine

No it doesn't, because again, it is irrelevant if you think the stories are crap, because the stories are within the MGS sentiment.

I forgot about Volgin so my comment of rehashed characters was based solely at mantis, which I my reply was aimed at so you were putting words I my mouth

Your mistake not mine.


Look, my whole point, because I see the discussion leading to a dark place is that I think it's a baseless hyperbole to say MGSV is not a true MGS.

 

[Frank Jaeger]

@Solidus
How can you possibly know what parts of his project Ogre where implemented here?

And he never said it was a reboot.

Regarding the gameplay, it is clear that the main core mechanics are still there, only a handful of small features have been added or removed, some of which are either temporary or even optional.

It's pretty obvious that what stayed is way more than what got changed.

@Frank

Yet, the story elements surrounding Mantis haven't even been revealed, and probably won't be for another half year or more, so what is exactly "lazy writing" based on?

The way he's been portrayed in the trailers screams that he was used for 'fan appeal' as apposed to substance.

If that's not how it is then it was a bad way to preview. I'd have not mentioned anything about him or at least spoke about why they'd introduced character from other timelines in with thought. Right now it only looks like a fan pleaser and based on some of kojimas past decisions, I'd say it's a fairly reasonable conclusion to arrive at. If you are of the same mind set about the series as I am right now

Gasper, you may not see it, just as I may not see some points you say, but there is something very different about MGSV and Solidus put it brilliantly - disconnected. It doesn't look like a MGS games, the features omitted are all features that made it feel MGS, and the new features added make it feel less MGS

 

[Henry Morgan*]

I don't think there should be a formal explanation of why Mantis is there. This game is where the timelines merge, Solid and Big Boss stories merge. I don't only like that, I think it makes sense

I understand those feelings, its all about GZ... but considering what we've heard TPP will have most of those features back

 

[Frank Jaeger]

I said we know that at least ONE character is corky and we don't know about the rest, so the door is open for more, but that one character proves that the corkiness is not gone, it is irrelevant if the sniper thing has been done before.


No it doesn't, because again, it is irrelevant if you think the stories are crap, because the stories are within the MGS sentiment.


Your mistake not mine.


Look, my whole point, because I see the discussion leading to a dark place is that I think it's a baseless hyperbole to say MGSV is not a true MGS.

Yeah I don't like your tone.

And no it wasn't my mistake, you replied to a comment of mine that wasn't even said to you regarding mantis.

My comment regarding the rehash of old characters stands fine in context of the comments between me and Pturtle.

It's your fault for not reading the context of the comments properly before gracing me with your opinion.

I also said it doesn't look like a true MGS and have taken away a lot of the things that make it MGS, core or not.

There are plenty of others with the same thoughts as me so saying it's baseless is rubbish. Baseless to you maybe

 

[GasparZizou]

The way he's been portrayed in the trailers screams that he was used for 'fan appeal' as apposed to substance.

If that's not how it is then it was a bad way to preview. I'd have not mentioned anything about him or at least spoke about why they'd introduced character from other timelines in with thought. Right now it only looks like a fan pleaser and based on some of kojimas past decisions, I'd say it's a fairly reasonable conclusion to arrive at. If you are of the same mind set about the series as I am right now

Gasper, you may not see it, just as I may not see some points you say, but there is something very different about MGSV and Solidus put it brilliantly - disconnected. It doesn't look like a MGS games, the features omitted are all features that made it feel MGS, and the new features added make it feel less MGS

I agree that he was used as fanboy catcher, but doesn't mean he wasn't used with story substance as well.

I disagree on the last point, I say that the main things that make it feel like an MGS are still there, I don't feel it disconnected at all, in fact, when I was watching the trailer I posted I was thinking "Damn, this is just like PW", I see your points but....

Respectfully deny them, sir.






Please don't hit me with a bat.

 

[Henry Morgan*]

That was a great movie BTW, saw it last night for the hundredth time

 

[pturtle]

The way he's been portrayed in the trailers screams that he was used for 'fan appeal' as apposed to substance.

If that's not how it is then it was a bad way to preview. I'd have not mentioned anything about him or at least spoke about why they'd introduced character from other timelines in with thought. Right now it only looks like a fan pleaser and based on some of kojimas past decisions, I'd say it's a fairly reasonable conclusion to arrive at. If you are of the same mind set about the series as I am right now

Gasper, you may not see it, just as I may not see some points you say, but there is something very different about MGSV and Solidus put it brilliantly - disconnected. It doesn't look like a MGS games, the features omitted are all features that made it feel MGS, and the new features added make it feel less MGS

Well, Metal Gear Solid was also quite different from both Metal Gear games before it. These games have to evolve, I still feel this game is 100% Metal Gear, just a bit more serious, and darker.

 

[Henry Morgan*]

Same here, as I said before, in my opinion... you can only determine relatedness by looking a similarities not differences

 

[pturtle]

That was a great movie BTW, saw it last night for the hundredth time

Brad Pitt is my favorite actor working today! Would love to see more Aldo Raine someday.

 

[Solidus]

@Solidus
How can you possibly know what parts of his project Ogre where implemented here?

And he never said it was a reboot.

Regarding the gameplay, it is clear that the main core mechanics are still there, only a handful of small features have been added or removed, some of which are either temporary or even optional.

It's pretty obvious that what stayed is way more than what got changed.

@Frank

Yet, the story elements surrounding Mantis haven't even been revealed, and probably won't be for another half year or more, so what is exactly "lazy writing" based on?

Well, for one thing, Project Ogre was going to be the first game to demonstrate the capabilities of the FOX Engine - in addition to being open world and featuring "taboo" elements that Kojima feared would eventually put him into trouble with Japanese censors. All three of these elements have now been incorporated into MGS V (plus, remember when reports came out of how gruesome and disturbing the ending of GZ is?).

Of course, Project Ogre was never released, so we can't make a full side-by-side comparison on all of the features from it that were transposed to MGS V. However, based on what I've seen so far, it does seem like MGS V is just a result of Kojima's failed IP that he couldn't get off from development.

Kojima never explicitly mentioned the word "reboot", but when he addressed the change of voice actors in this quote, you can certainly see that MGS V is meant to be like a recreation (or in short, "reboot") of the series:

"I can say, yes, it will be a new person. I can't say who it is yet. What we're trying to accomplish here is recreate the Metal Gear series. It's a new type of Metal Gear game, and we want to have this reflected in the voice actor as well."

https://www.psu.com/a018927/Hideo-Kojima-explains-why-David-Hayter-is-not-in-Metal-Gear-Solid-V

 

[Frank Jaeger]

I supposed I will agree than even the story etc is still somewhat MGS, maybe even the characters in the sense of them changing over time and due to circumstance. It is still in the MGS Lore so I will agree with that

I'm talking strictly the way it plays. The things you'd expect from a MGS game now, the staple features that are unique to MGS that make it different from the rest.

The story and characters will always make it part MGS, maybe this is all the back end if you will, but without the front end it doesn't matter if it's MGS in the back because it feels like you playing a MGS story through a different game. They pair have to go hand in hand

 

[pturtle]

Well, for one thing, Project Ogre was going to be the first game to demonstrate the capabilities of the FOX Engine - in addition to being open world and featuring "taboo" elements that Kojima feared would eventually put him into trouble with Japanese censors. All three of these elements have now been incorporated into MGS V (plus, remember when reports came out of how gruesome and disturbing the ending of GZ is?).

Of course, Project Ogre was never released, so we can't make a full side-by-side comparison on all of the features from it that were transposed to MGS V. However, based on what I've seen so far, it does seem like MGS V is just a result of Kojima's failed IP that he couldn't get off from development.

Kojima never explicitly mentioned the word "reboot", but when he addressed the change of voice actors in this quote, you can certainly see that MGS V is meant to be like a recreation (or in short, "reboot") of the series:

"I can say, yes, it will be a new person. I can't say who it is yet. What we're trying to accomplish here is recreate the Metal Gear series. It's a new type of Metal Gear game, and we want to have this reflected in the voice actor as well."

https://www.psu.com/a018927/Hideo-Kojima-explains-why-David-Hayter-is-not-in-Metal-Gear-Solid-V

Thank god Project Ogre turned into this.