Media Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain & Ground Zeroes

[pturtle]

I can't believe they have removed the knocking on walls feature, that's a big shame, it's perfectly plausible in this game.

Call me negative about the game all you like, MGSV seems to have lost lots of defining features, replaced them with genre defining but no self/title defining features.

This is well and truly an all new Type of Metal Gear game being born here. Anybody who says it's staying true to the franchise so far is kidding themselves. They have changed just about every fundamental they can, while practically only keeping the fact it's got MGS as the title, The Main character is called Snakes and it's a stealth based game.

Not that it is a bad thing for Konami and the type of fans that dong care about the series correlating with itself and what had already been made etc. This is not me saying MGS will be a failed series now, but it will split opinion of older fans who liked the series for all the things that are now seemingly being dropped. It's not the death of MGS, just the death of the Franchise as we know it. If you can openly accept this game with no Ill thoughts towards what's it's lost to become what it is, more power to you, honestly.

To be honest, one of he most appealing parts of MGS was the suspense of belief and the fantasy elements. That's what set it aside from say splinter cell, which was sort of going for the more realistic approach

I think the core gameplay mechanics is still Metal Gear, but the series is definitely not the same as it use to be, I also don’t mean that in a negative way. The Metal Gear most of us grew up on ended with 4. Most of the things that gives the series it’s uniqueness is returning in TPP though. Kojima said it in an interview, but they might not be implemented the same as they use to be. So we will probably be able to use boxes to sneak around in TPP, but we can’t just pull it out our *** anymore. Probably have to find it or something.

 

[Frank Jaeger]

Even the mechanics aren't going to be the same though, really.

If by that you meant that you will be a sneaking suit wearing man, running around in 3rd person trying to sneak your way through a level then yes, that's were the similarities end though imo.

It's noticeable from the videos, that there IS something totally new. There wouldn't be comments about assassins creed or other games apparent influence if is wasn't. It may not be a bad thing as in this could potentially be a new defining moment for the future of stealth videogaming.

I do think they should have maybe started a new timeline for this though, finished off the Solid/BB saga in a way most people are used to. It would have been a great salute to fans.

If they really need to have MGS In the title.. they are bringing in a new voice actor and a totally different looking main character bar the eyepatch. Why not just make him a completely new protagonist? That way they wouldn't have pissed anyone off.

I think the core gameplay mechanics is still Metal Gear, but the series is definitely not the same as it use to be, I also don’t mean that in a negative way. The Metal Gear most of us grew up on ended with 4. Most of the things that give the series it’s uniqueness is returning in TPP though. Kojima said it in an interview, but they might not be implemented the same as they use to be. So we will probably be able to use boxes to sneak in TPP, but we can’t just pull it out our *** anymore. Probably have to find it or something.

 

[pturtle]

Even the mechanics aren't going to be the same though, really.

If by that you meant that you will be a man running around in 3rd person, trying to sneak your way through a level then yes, that's were the similarities end though, imo.

It's noticeable from the videos, there IS something totally new. There wouldn't be comments about assassins creed or other games apparent influence if is wasn't noticeable. It may not be a bad thing as if this is a new defining moment for stealth videogames.

I do think they should have maybe started a new timeline for this though, and finished off the Solid/BS saga in a way most people are used to.

If they need to have MGS In the title, and they are bringing in a new voice actor and a totally different looking Main character bar the eyepatch. Why not just make him a new protagonist? That way they wouldn't have pissed anyone off.

Actually you’re right, the core mechanics have changed, few things are still similar though. If they would have made a new protagonist I could see fans of either Solid, or Big Boss upset. It’s impossible to please everyone, especially these days.

 

[Frank Jaeger]

Your correct in saying there is no way to please all fans. That's why I believe just nipping the Solid Snake/Big Boss idea in the bud and using a totally new protagonist would have benefitted.

Which brings me onto a funny point. Why would anyone really need it to be Big Boss? Unless of course you care about the timeline and story and from that why is it not maddening to everyone that it's Keifer now and not Hayter, on the basis on continuity?

I can't correlate the importance of it being the Big Boss character - but the story and VA not be of importance or even relevance. Why should fans who have welcomed these changed even bat an eyelid about who is the main character anymore?

If there substance isn't the story, VA or purely on the pretence of what came before. Then it's basically the character model or gameplay that's the only appeal, so with those being the only factors that weigh in. They shouldn't really care but do?

Strange are the MGS fans

Actually you’re right, the core mechanics have changed, few things are still similar though. If they would have made a new protagonist I could see fans of either Solid, or Big Boss upset. It’s impossible to please everyone, especially these days.

 

[GasparZizou]

The real core features are still there, the corky characters, the story, the apparent supernatural elements, the writing behind it is there, those are the most important characteristics of the franchise, it is plenty to call it a true MGS, and I'm not kidding myself, on the contrary, stating that this game has become generic is rather naive.

Audio-wise the game is untouched, in-game score still feels completely MGS.

The only aspect in which the game has changed (and for the best) is gameplay-wise, it received an overhaul yet it feels MGS still, the way you CQC the opponents, peek around corners, prone, the little details that display technique on behalf of the characters are all deep MGS trademarks that no other game came up with before MGS, and it's still doing it, if I remember correctly, the enemies don't patrol on patterns anymore, they roam freely around the map, which is a 1st for sneaking games.

The little features that were removed or implemented (some of them possibly temporarily) were nothing but logical steps forward to apply a little more realism into the mix, it's still not completely realistic, no one stated it would be ultra realistic, they're only turning the realism up a notch and that's fine, but not enough to even justify detracting from this franchise's identity.

 

[Frank Jaeger]

I wouldn't say they were the only important characteristics of MGS. The story now even less so than before, it's almost a joke now the story so that's a moot point. He can't even link up to where it all started.

I never said it became generic. I even said it's may be a genre defining game. It isn't self defining though, generic wasn't the word more like borrowed. It isn't generic in these sense it's like all other games, it isn't however a self defining title at it's hearts. Putting lots of already thought out things together to make something else isn't really innovative. I understand why they wanted to take it this route, it just isn't the Metal Gear Route it has been on.

In fact pretty much all the core features are gone as well as the 'defining features'. Minus the ones if already listed in my previous post and I'll add the music and score.

Plus the core features aren't what only make a good MGS games, far from it actually

 

[Henry Morgan*]

if you are going to determine whether you are related to your brother or your sister you can't do it by looking at differences, right? you can only determine relatedness by looking a similarities

I see many similarities between This new MGS and the old MGS but thats just my opnion

The real core features are still there, the corky characters, the story, the apparent supernatural elements, the writing behind it is there, those are the most important characteristics of the franchise, it is plenty to call it a true MGS, and I'm not kidding myself, on the contrary

there is more than that but yeah I agree

 

[Frank Jaeger]

What do you think are the main features that made MGS

 

[GasparZizou]

I wouldn't say they were the only important characteristics of MGS. The story now even less so than before, it's almost a joke now the story so that's a moot point. He can't even link up to where it all started.

I never said it became generic. I even said it's may be a genre defining game. It isn't self defining though, generic wasn't the word more like borrowed. It isn't generic in these sense it's like all other games, it isn't however a self defining title at it's hearts. Putting lots of already thought out things together to make something else isn't really innovative. I understand why they wanted to take it this route, it just isn't the Metal Gear Route it has been on.

In fact pretty much all the core features are gone as well as the 'defining features'. Minus the ones if already listed in my previous post and I'll add the music and score.

Plus the core features aren't what only make a good MGS games, far from it actually

I disagree.

Yeah, those aren't the only important things but are certainly the most important and I don't see how the story is a joke.

I see it quite differently, It's both very self defining as it is genre defining, more so at it's hearts, it's only minor features that have been changed.

Sure it's putting some pre-thought things in there, but I don't see anyone giving the Arkham franchise a piss for borrowing mechanics from MGS, primarily in the sneaking department.

No, the core features aren't gone, some minor features are.

 

[pturtle]

Your correct in saying there is no way to please all fans. That's why I believe just nipping the Solid Snake/Big Boss idea in the bud and using a totally new protagonist would have benefitted.

Which brings me onto a funny point. Why would anyone really need it to be Big Boss? Unless of course you care about the timeline and story and from that why is it not maddening to everyone that it's Keifer now and not Hayter, on the basis on continuity?

I can't correlate the importance of it being the Big Boss character - but the story and VA not be of importance or even relevance. Why should fans who have welcomed these changed even bat an eyelid about who is the main character anymore?

If there substance isn't the story, VA or purely on the pretence of what came before. Then it's basically the character model or gameplay that's the only appeal, so with those being the only factors that weigh in. They shouldn't really care but do?

Strange are the MGS fans

We don’t need it to be Big Boss, but obviously Konami, like any other company is interested in making money. Batman and Spiderman have been alive in the comics for more then 50 years. Big Boss has a fan base, Kojima has a specific story he wanted to tell, and decided to use Big Boss because he felt more “human” than Solid. Why wouldn’t Kojima use him? I like Big Boss because of certain characteristics he has, and to me at least, he still has everything that made him Big Boss. I understand why some long time fans are upset about all this change, but I hope they can see the other side of things as well.

 

[Frank Jaeger]

The story has been piss poor since PW and MGS4

Big Boss has gone under the biggest character transformation in the series - he's not the quirky character he once was, same goes for Miller and the rest. The tone of the characters has totally changed so yes this has fundamentally changed the characters. It's actually one of the main points Kojima has made apparent from the start in regards to BB

Story will be just as garbage as the last. Kojima hasn't written a good story since MGS3, nothing will change here I'm guessing. It'll be another MGS4 case where everyone loves it when it's new and then the cracks will show once the novelty wears off

It's got the supernatural element I'll give you that, more uninspiring rehashed characters from old games brought in to some reason I won't know until I know the story. Having psycho mantis is cool and all but really? There wasn't any mention of these too having anything between each other before

 

[Henry Morgan*]

Well we all are judging something we didn't experience yet so opinions could change in the following months. One big difference, story-wise, I see is that TPP shouldn't have a moral conflict created by realising that you are working for the bad guys... in that game you'll be a bad guy trying to destroy another bad guy that will be intresting imho

 

[pturtle]

Well we all are judging something we didn't experience yet so opinions could change in the following months. One big difference, story-wise, I see is that TPP shouldn’t have a moral conflict created by realising that you are working for the bad guys... in that game you'll be a bad guy trying to destroy a bigger bad guy that will be intresting imho

I understand Frank’s skepticism, MGS4 and PW were pretty inconsistent in the writing department, but so far MGSV seems to be the anti MGS4//PW. From what we know, this game will be more grounded, and the silliness that most of us hated from MGS4/PW won’t be there.

 

[GasparZizou]

The story has been piss poor since PW and MGS4

Big Boss has gone under the biggest character transformation in the series - he's not the quirky character he once was, same goes for Miller and the rest. The tone of the characters has totally changed so yes this has fundamentally changed the characters. It's actually one of the main points Kojima has made apparent from the start in regards to BB

Story will be just as garbage as the last. Kojima hasn't written a good story since MGS3, nothing will change here I'm guessing. It'll be another MGS4 case where everyone loves it when it's new and then the cracks will show once the novelty wears off

It's got the supernatural element I'll give you that, more uninspiring rehashed characters from old games brought in to some reason I won't know until I know the story. Having psycho mantis is cool and all but really? There wasn't any mention of these too having anything between each other before

Our different tastes regarding the stories in PW and MGS4 are irrelevant, just cause you don't like something doesn't mean it's not within the sentiment of the franchise, and you can't tell me MGS4 nor PW aren't withing the sentiment of the franchise, even if you think they're crap.

The big boss from PW was the same BB from MGS3, it did change with MGS4 but apparently they're trying to return him from a pre MGS4 "good guy" status, and I don't see big changes in Kaz, even if there are, doesn't mean those changes aren't within the MGS view, and they're not.

The tone of the story has changed, the characters remain consistent in their development.

Uninspired? This game is a succession of MGS3 it makes perfect sense that Volgin is showing up and doesn't need to be any previous stated relationship between BB and mantis for him to show up in this game.

 

[Frank Jaeger]

You did specifically say corky characters, which has been a given for this timeline of characters, which they aren't anymore. As I said corky characters are not a core of the franchise and if you think they are, this change only solidifies my point that they are changing core features to suit

I never said it wasn't in sentiment I said they were poorly wrote, which they were. I'm comparison to the good story's of MGS1&3. That being irrelevant anyway.

The point is Kojima himself has said it's a roboot of the series, so there's no point in defending it saying it's staying true because it just isn't. It's in the same vein that's as far as i'd take it. Of course your gonna know what it is because Kojima will have put enough in there to make it appear the same

Volgin I never even mentioned so not sure why your putting words into my mouth. I said the flying whale and Mantis. Mantis has no need to be in this game, it's just lazy writing

AND there is no way at the end of TPP big boss will be the big boss we knew from MG. It's just not happening. He's the hero now, so once again poor writing and the ability to stick to his own storylines

 

[pturtle]

You did specifically say corky characters, which has been a given for this timeline of characters, which they aren't anymore. As I said corky characters are not a core of the franchise and if you think they are, this change only solidifies my point that they are changing core features to suit

I never said it wasn't in sentiment I said they were poorly wrote, which they were. I'm comparison to the good story's of MGS1&3. That being irrelevant anyway.

The point is Kojima himself has said it's a roboot of the series, so there's no point in defending it saying it's staying true because it just isn't. It's in the same vein that's as far as if take it. Of course your gonna know what it is because Kojima will have put enough in there to make it appear the same

Volgin I never even mentioned so not sure why your putting words into my mouth. I said the flying whale and Mantis. Mantis has no need to be in this game, it's just lazy writing

I believe he said its sort of a reinvention for the series, they’re taking it in a more serious direction, but this is certainly not a reboot.

 

[Frank Jaeger]

I believe he said its sort of a reinvention for the series, they’re taking it in a more serious direction, but this is certainly not a reboot.

Reinvention - reboot

Pretty much the same thing there except he's not starting from the beginning - in fact technically he sort of is. He could essentially ruin the entire MGS timeline from this game. He could render Solid Snake totally pointless right now

If BB does not become a tyrant then yes, essentially the game will have been rebooted

 

[Henry Morgan*]

I loved Mantis and I'm looking forward to see his younger self again in TPP same with Liquid and others.


Big Boss is no hero, never was, hes just an old killer, looking for revenge

 

[Frank Jaeger]

I loved Mantis for what he was too. But he belongs in the Solid Snake games, not Big Boss'. I'm not even sure if the timeline would permits it. What's the point in having a story if you don't stick to it anyway? If you bought a book that read like the MGS timeline you'd laugh and how poorly strung together it was, despite the content being good. He just shouldn't have been introduced in this game just because

Big Boss has been the official hero ever since MGS4, no question about that. Regardless of what he should be

I loved Mantis and I'm looking forward to see his younger self again in TPP same with Liquid and others.


Big Boss is no hero, never was, just an old killer, looking for revenge

 

[GasparZizou]

You did specifically say corky characters, which has been a given for this timeline of characters, which they aren't anymore. As I said corky characters are not a core of the franchise and if you think they are, this change only solidifies my point that they are changing core features to suit

I never said it wasn't in sentiment I said they were poorly wrote, which they were. I'm comparison to the good story's of MGS1&3. That being irrelevant anyway.

The point is Kojima himself has said it's a roboot of the series, so there's no point in defending it saying it's staying true because it just isn't. It's in the same vein that's as far as if take it. Of course your gonna know what it is because Kojima will have put enough in there to make it appear the same

Volgin I never even mentioned so not sure why your putting words into my mouth. I said the flying whale and Mantis. Mantis has no need to be in this game, it's just lazy writing

Yeah, I suppose you don't think Quiet is beyond corky? She is right in your face corky, from the rest of the characters we really don't know but Quite leaves the door open and shows that the corkiness is not lost, so it supports my point over yours.

So the story's basis are there, that was my point, another core aspect.

Kojima never said this was a reboot, and everything else points out that it IS true to the series, and it's the other way around; He didn't change enough to justify saying it's not a "true MGS".

We were talking about the supernatural aspect and you said something along the lines that they were uninspired rehashes of old characters, there are only 2 characters that fit that topic, Volgin and Mantis, I'm not putting words in your mouth, I was explaining why they aren't uninspired choices and as well as calling the dream Wale and Mantis lazy writing is completely invalid since we don't even have a hint of context.