Who had the upper hand, Mace or Palpatine?

[Prime Clone]

I think George Lucas needs to personally intervene with a Shatner-esque "GET A LIFE!!!"

 

[Anzik]

George would never do that. If we got a life, we wouldn't buy his stuff.

 

[lerath666]

I think George Lucas needs to personally intervene with a Shatner-esque "GET A LIFE!!!"

Ah, but look where that got shatner

 

[pixletwin]

I dreamed all night long about boogers and airports.

 

[lerath666]

I dreamed all night long about boogers and airports.

​

 

[bumblebee]

Star Wars fans will debate pointlessly forever, much like Marvel characters will never stay dead.[/QUOTE]



....look theres Cap....wait didnt he die

 

[Outer_Rim]

We never read a prophecy, we only heard descriptions of it. The Jedi interpreted it to mean destroying the Sith.
Remember in TPM the Jedi thought the Sith were extinct.

The Force was going to use Anakin to balance the Force, it didn't say how. It could have been peacefully or violently like the films.

"Which brings us to films 4, 5 and 6, where Anakin's offspring redeem him and allow him to fulfill the prophecy where he brings balance to the Force by doing away with the Sith and getting rid of evil in the universe."
--George Lucas

Anakin is the Chosen One and he did bring peace at last with his own sacrifice. Luke couldn't kill the Emperor himself, but he could make Anakin reflect on his life and kill the Emperor."
--George Lucas

 

[Captain Faramir]

"Which brings us to films 4, 5 and 6, where Anakin's offspring redeem him and allow him to fulfill the prophecy where he brings balance to the Force by doing away with the Sith and getting rid of evil in the universe."
--George Lucas

I think that's important. It's not the Sith and the Jedi, nor is it making good and evil "equal"--it's getting rid of evil and the Sith both. Good is intrinsically balanced.

 

[Outer_Rim]

I think that's important. It's not the Sith and the Jedi, nor is it making good and evil "equal"--it's getting rid of evil and the Sith both. Good is intrinsically balanced.

"In The Phantom Menace one of the Jedi Council already knows the balance of The Force is starting to slip, and will slip further. It is obvious to this person that The Sith are going to destroy this balance. On the other hand a prediction which is referred to states someone will replace the balance in the future. At the right time a balance may again be created, but presently it is being eroded by dark forces."

--George Lucas, Time Magazine article, 2002

Lucas means Anakin balances the Force by getting rid of the evil that the Sith brought to the galaxy. The Sith brake the balance between Good and Evil by doing away with Good. With the Sith there is only Evil.

 

[pixletwin]

I think that's important. It's not the Sith and the Jedi, nor is it making good and evil "equal"--it's getting rid of evil and the Sith both. Good is intrinsically balanced.

yeah sorry to burst your bubble, but the Jedi were corrupt also. Qui-Gon was one of the few "true Jedi".... You might say that the Jedi were Apostate by the era of the PT.

 

[Captain Faramir]

It doesn't really burst my bubble since I don't really see it as thus. Yoda, I feel, wasn't like the other Jedi either, and I don't see Qui-Gon as being so remarkable. Yes, many Jedi were blinded, true, but not on so tremendous a level that they all had to be destroyed. At least, that's how I see it. I'm cool with however anybody else wants to interpret it, after all.

 

[lerath666]

It doesn't really burst my bubble since I don't really see it as thus. Yoda, I feel, wasn't like the other Jedi either, and I don't see Qui-Gon as being so remarkable. Yes, many Jedi were blinded, true, but not on so tremendous a level that they all had to be destroyed. At least, that's how I see it. I'm cool with however anybody else wants to interpret it, after all.

 

[pixletwin]

It doesn't really burst my bubble since I don't really see it as thus. Yoda, I feel, wasn't like the other Jedi either, and I don't see Qui-Gon as being so remarkable. Yes, many Jedi were blinded, true, but not on so tremendous a level that they all had to be destroyed. At least, that's how I see it. I'm cool with however anybody else wants to interpret it, after all.

Yes, I am afraid Yoda was right there with all the rest of their sorry Jedi butts. The screen play (and the ROTS novelization) has Yoda confessing all this to Qui-Gon. That he led the Jedi's astray and failed as a leader. The Jedi order begins anew when Yoda becomes Padawan to Master Qui-Gon.

 

[pixletwin]

Exactly.

 

[Captain Faramir]

I don't read the novels; for me the movies are the only canon. I'm a purist like that.

 

[pixletwin]

I don't read the novels; for me the movies are the only canon. I'm a purist like that.

But it was in the movie SCRIPT. Not cut because they didn't like it, but it was cut because Liam Neeson's scene was not filmed (and that whole can o worms).

 

[Anzik]

What is the similarity between the Jedi and the Sith?
They both use the Force to their own ends. The Jedi, for the most part follow the CODE, a dogmatic method of interpreting the will of Force, as if the will of the Force were a constant. Their motives are altruistic but they listen to the CODE more than the Living Force. The Sith follow a CODE to use the Force to fulfill their desires. Again, ignoring the will of the Living Force and focusing on their selfish goals.
The Jedi were out of balance too, the Sith would throw it severely out of whack.
Qui Gon was the only one listening more to the Living Force instead of the code.

Notice though that Lucas didn't say that was the only way to restore balance to the Force, but it was the context of the story. Once things were set in motion things would have been different. What if the council sent Jedi Master Dom Fok to Naboo instead of Qui Gon? They may have never made it to Tatooine. What if QG had lived and trained Anakin? What if he had been assigned to a more seasoned master than Obi Wan? What if he was discovered by Palpatine?

There are numerous possibilities all over the story where things COULD have gone very differently with slight deviations.

 

[pixletwin]

What is the similarity between the Jedi and the Sith?
They both use the Force to their own ends. The Jedi, for the most part follow the CODE, a dogmatic method of interpreting the will of Force, as if the will of the Force were a constant. Their motives are altruistic but they listen to the CODE more than the Living Force. The Sith follow a CODE to use the Force to fulfill their desires. Again, ignoring the will of the Living Force and focusing on their selfish goals.
The Jedi were out of balance too, the Sith would throw it severely out of whack.
Qui Gon was the only one listening more to the Living Force instead of the code.

Notice though that Lucas didn't say that was the only way to restore balance to the Force, but it was the context of the story. Once things were set in motion things would have been different. What if the council sent Jedi Master Dom Fok to Naboo instead of Qui Gon? They may have never made it to Tatooine. What if QG had lived and trained Anakin? What if he had been assigned to a more seasoned master than Obi Wan? What if he was discovered by Palpatine?

There are numerous possibilities all over the story where things COULD have gone very differently with slight deviations.

My goodness Anzik, Outer Rim, and Lerath... We 4 are truly the smartest SW fans out there. I am convinced of it.

 

[Anzik]

That would be frightening.

 

[Captain Faramir]

But in the movie script, Shaak Ti dies--twice! If Lucas had really wanted that scene in there, he could have done it. Oh Lucas, why can't you write a cohesive script?!? Why must you vex us with your shoddy writing and scattered story lines! Oh, it's all in vain! Why can't you all see? Wake up! Senators, you must wake up! Your vision is all distorted! Palpatine lost the duel! Was he more powerful? Yes! But he LOST THE DUEL!!! He would have died, not because of a lack of power, but because Mace was a better swordsman! If Yoda had been in his prime, he would have beaten Sidious! But he was OLD! Mace was powerful enough to best Sidious in combat, even if not more powerful in the Force. The coming of the four Jedi was unexpected, and while he could easily take out the other Jedi, Mace was a whole different story--he had to kill the others quick, because he knew Mace would be the only real threat. Sidious lost, and all his fancy lightning wouldn't have done anything until Anakin came to save him. This was his unexpected salvation. Then he used everything he had to convince Anakin to help, out of fear (he is a Sith after all) of death. He didn't know Anakin would come, and he really was terrified--he was about to die!--and so had to play up his loss and cry martyr, not because he had planned it all along in some massive, all-encompassing plot, but because it was his only possible escape, and he was absolutely desperate--and little orphan Ani bought it! Idiot! As soon as he maimed Windu in his own desperate confusion, Palpatine's exaggerated terror became unnecessary because it had (to Palpatine's relief) worked--Sidious was safe, and Mace, the better swordsman and winner of the duel, had to lose to Sidious' greater control of the Force.

but Mace WON the battle, Palpatine was GOING to die, Anakin came UNEXPECTED and Palpatine MADE UP THE ACT only AT THAT MOMENT because he was DESPERATE, NOT because he had been planning it the whole time, but because he was SCARED OUT OF HIS GOURD and MACE HAD WON the duel, and ONLY DIED because STUPID ANAKIN is a TOTAL MORON who CHOSE to intervene, to the SURPRISE of BOTH Sidious AND Windu.

It's so freaking clear! WHY IS THIS SO DIFFICULT?!?!?!?!?