Media Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain & Ground Zeroes

[Snake Plissken]

Like you were saying, Kojima killed-off Liquid too early in MGS 1, and his persona was kept alive through Ocelot, to ensure that he was a recurring villain. Imagine how awesome it would have been if it were actually Liquid's ghost, and not Ocelot going crazy...

He killed him off so fast because maybe he wasn't sure if there would even be a MGS2, so he went all out with trying to tie things together. I mean he did give a slight cliffhanger ending but MGS1 is pretty self contained.

Ocelot was the puppeteer in MGS2 and could of been again in MGS4. But him turning himself into Liquid makes no logical sense at all, he didn't need to be him whatsoever

Is there a clear explanation in MGS4 as to why he chose to do that? Been awhile since I played it. IIRC wasn't it supposed to be a distraction so Snake could take the AIs out?

 

[Dark_Spidey]

He did that to fool the Patriots so they'd let their guard down

 

[Snake Plissken]

yea wonder how if the series had been if Liquid was alive.

I would imagine it would be better and more coherent then what we did get with the sequels. Makes me think if he was left alive and became a main villain of the series, would there even be Big Boss games.

 

[Snake Plissken]

He did that to fool the Patriots so they'd let their guard down

How would it be any different if he was just himself? It was just another dumb plot line Kojima wrote in to try and paint over the mistake of killing Liquid.

 

[Solidus]

I think there was some explanation from the MGS Database that the Liquid persona was inadvertently taking control of Ocelot's mind, so he removed Liquid's arm and replaced it with a cybernetic one, instead. The whole becoming Liquid thing, was to trick The Patriots about Ocelot's real intention.

Let's face it, the only thing about MGS 4 that truly made sense, were the nanomachines...

Edit: yup, what Spidey said.

 

[Snake Plissken]

I know the intention was to end the Patriots, I just don't comprehend how it's supposed to trick the Patriots

 

[Solidus]

Nanomachines, son!

Who the hell even knows. MGS 4 was such a weak entry into the series.

 

[Henry Morgan*]

Where did you lose points on the mission ranking screen?

I know you can complete the mission by extracting both of the targets. This nets you the Depth trophy, but it takes a long time to complete without getting an enemy alert. I think I got an A ranking after extracting both of them. Maybe this is needed to get an S ranking.

I got an S rank without doing that, and when I did it I got spotted and got an S anyway

I did that as well without being seen. I have the trophy. The only negative things I got in the mission, were killing the two renegades. I’m thinking I might have to exact prisoners as well. I think I’ve tried everything else

So you didn't get spotted? did you tranq other soldiers?

Look at this, this guy used a strategy similar to mine

I know the intention was to end the Patriots, I just don't comprehend how it's supposed to trick the Patriots

I think its supposed to trick the patriots because Ocelot owns PMCs and he is part of the system, and he is "trying" to destroy it, he is doing what Liquid wanted to do in MGS1. And the AIs used Snake to stop him, like before. The AIs use the same patterns over and over again, he knew this and used Snake to accomplish his goals. Thats how I see it

And in the end Sunny ruined his plans... a kid saved the world, as always.. the good Solid Snake is used by someone else, I dunno... its kind of messy

 

[Snake Plissken]

I got an S rank without doing that, and when I did it I got spotted and got an S anyway



So you didn't get spotted? did you tranq other soldiers?

Look at this, this guy used a strategy similar to mine




I think its supposed to trick the patriots because Ocelot owns PMCs and he is part of the system, and he is "trying" to destroy it, he is doing what Liquid wanted to do in MGS1. And the AIs used Snake to stop him, like before. The AIs use the same patterns over and over again, he knew this and used Snake to accomplish his goals. Thats how I see it

And in the end Sunny ruined his plans... a kid saved the world, as always.. the good Solid Snake is used by someone else, I dunno... its kind of messy

Even if it did trick the Patriots, Liquid is still running the PMCs so why not cut off his control of them?

 

[Henry Morgan*]

He is important for the war economy I guess, I think Ocelot had some control over the nanos of his soldiers thanks to Naomi .. I don't remember, the AIs are a bit stupid anyway they repeat the same patterns they can't think for themselves the can't be like "oh hey... lets make his soldiers betray him and kill him" they are too dumb for that

 

[Snake Plissken]

The AIs are a stupid plot line altogether really. No explanation on how exactly they control anything, nor how they're even aware of the events that even happen. I just don't know how someone faking to be someone else would bypass their supreme intellect

GW came across as this alien, all knowing being... while JD was full retard.

 

[Henry Morgan*]

They seem intelligent because they are stupid they are programed to repeat what they do, I mean if Ocelot was pretending to be Liquid he already knew what AIs would do thanks to MGS1, it was process of trial and error like he said

 

[Snake Plissken]

They're like Skynet's Asperger's Syndrome little brother.

 

[Henry Morgan*]

I just remembered, Ocelot was controling the military part of the system thats why the AIs can't do anything

I admit he and Eva had a great plan, whatever happens they win

 

[Snake Plissken]

What doesn't make sense, no matter how much hypnosis someone is under... it can't make them think they're a completely different individual. So say for instance I buy into this dumb Liquid plot line, if they got into the system at that point with GW... why not erase JD right there? He's got Naomi so it should be easy, what's the point of playing the part to the point of launching a unneeded Nuke at JD?

 

[Henry Morgan*]

Good point ..

Maybe its because Solid could ruin that plan.

Instead of taking the risk.. they desided to make it so they win whatever happens, if Solid fails they nuke the thing, if Solid wins he uploads the virus. They kind of wanted Solid to win anyway. I guess they would upload the virus themselves if Snake wasn't there

I guessing here..

 

[Snake Plissken]

But... why not let Snake in on it? It was making it harder than it needed to be for no apparent reason

 

[Henry Morgan*]

I dunno they failed so many times they were desperate I guess

 

[Snake Plissken]

The more I try to dissect the reasoning for the main plot points of MGS4, the more unneeded they come across.

 

[Solidus]

MGS just doesn't make sense. Why was Snake tricked for all of those years? Why didn't Big Boss just tell him about The Patriots and Zero from the beginning? Why didn't Liquid, Solidus or Ocelot tell him, either? Why did Eva kill herself in the fire just to trick Snake some more?

It's like that Michael Douglas movie "The Game", where everyone was in on the plan for trolling except for Douglas. Then they all had a party at the end and had a good laugh.

And it just struck me that the plot for MGS 1 was a retelling of "Twins" with Arnold and Devito .