1/6 Hot Toys - MMS 279 - Star Wars Episode IV: 1/6th scale Darth Vader

[cokebabies]

Just going by pics so far, it isn't a very impressive looking figure.

It's like hearing "Swedish twins" and you imagining this...

View attachment 158749

...but getting this.

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[momaw]

There are records and/or stories of Samurai dueling wherein they circle each other for hours, never swinging, never attacking, waiting for the other to make ONE mistake, A wrong move, dipping the blade too low or too high, looking away at the right moment etc, and then finish their opponent in a swift, SINGLE move.

This is 100% spot on. Even watching old Japanese Samurai movies it is mostly posturing or buying time for an opening followed by a few swift strokes and it's over. I would never call those movies boring. It's just a shame Toshiro Mifune never got to be a Jedi Master. He would have taken down everyone.

 

[davejames]

I've never really understood the complaints about the lightsaber battles in the OT being too "slow." The characters simply fought like people wielding a couple of heavy, powerful broad swords-- pretty much the same way sword fights have nearly always been depicted on screen (or even recently on Game of Thrones). And on top of that Lucas originally described the lightsabers as having a tremendous amount of energy that had to be carefully controlled by the user as well, which also fit in perfectly with what we saw in the OT.

All this recent stuff about Vader and Old Ben being much older or Luke not being a fully trained Jedi during the height of the Republic, yadda yadda, is just more revisionist crap from Lucas to explain the different fighting style of the prequels.

 

[Aliaz]

The fact that the fight was so "slow" and the almost careful movements of both Vader and Ben only made the lightsabers seem even more dangerous and powerful to me as a child. Hard to control and very deadly.

 

[Marine Boy]

The lightsaber duel in TPM was the best thing in the entire movie. The Dooku/Yoda duel was laughable, and the ROTS duel was completely over the top and unconvincing. Duelling whilst swinging from wires, running along falling superstructures, standing just inches above Lava, all of it just garbage. Not helped by the fact it was preceded by some of the worst dialogue ever.

One of the fights i was looking forward to was the duel between Obi-Wan and Greivous, but it was cut short when the clones arrived. What a wasted opportunity.

 

[Bo Shrek]

Agreed TPM lightsaber duel was/is the best thing about the prequels. It is amazing how AOTC followed that up with the Anakin/Dooku duel where they cut the power and had close ups of them swinging their lightsabers in the dark!!!

What Obi/Ani ROTS duel lacked was dialogue throughout. Instead Lucas decided to add dialogue at the very end….”I failed you etc etc…”

Look at ROTJ. That was powerful material.

 

[Jack D]

Some damn fine discussion about swordplay in the last few pages of this thread. Really enjoyed reading these posts guys

 

[PJB-1138]

I believe that Obi-Wan felt that he had accomplished his 'mission' by essentially introducing son to father, or redeemer to sinner. I don't really think that Lucas had intended it to come across that way, but the look that comes across Obi-Wan's face is pretty powerful. Added to the fact that after giving that look, he STOPPED FIGHTING.

Mind-officially-blown! I'd always noted that unusual exchange of glances between Luke and Obi-Wan, but NEVER considered in all this time what it meant for Obi-Wan to sacrifice himself in that way other than to allow our heroes to escape in the Millennium Falcon without him. The audience always looked at Vader as the villain, but it wasn't until he kills Obi-Wan before Luke that Vader truly becomes the enemy Luke must eventually confront.

Thanks, Rubio. Just when I thought my appreciation for Star Wars couldn't get any deeper...

 

[rubio95]

Mind-officially-blown! I'd always noted that unusual exchange of glances between Luke and Obi-Wan, but NEVER considered in all this time what it meant for Obi-Wan to sacrifice himself in that way other than to allow our heroes to escape in the Millennium Falcon without him. The audience always looked at Vader as the villain, but it wasn't until he kills Obi-Wan before Luke that Vader truly becomes the enemy Luke must eventually confront.

Thanks, Rubio. Just when I thought my appreciation for Star Wars couldn't get any deeper...

Thanks, PJB.

I don't imagine I'm the first to feel like that, but I'd never read or heard anyone else notice it.

The shallow answer is that Obi-Wan was distracting Vader in order to buy our heroes more time, but that doesn't check out, since there's a pretty major gun battle that ensues immediately after Obi-Wan stops dueling. In order for distraction to have been his motive, he should've continued fighting. When he's struck down, Luke yells, giving away their position to the Stormtroopers. So any attempt at distraction was ruined at that moment.

The only problem with that moment being the point at which Vader becomes the ultimate villain is the Prequel Trilogy. Lucas always said that the first six movies were about the rise, fall, and redemption of Anakin Skywalker. However, in Revenge of the Sith, Anakin/Vader slaughters children. SLAUGHTERS CHILDREN. At this point, and I'm sure any literary scholar would agree, that character becomes essentially irredeemable. The Original Trilogy establishes Vader, by the third film, as less of a monster, and able to be brought back to the 'Good Side.' Only following Vader's character arc through Episodes 4-6, this is totally possible.

I was an enormous fan of the Star Wars Technical Commentaries (anyone remember those?), and the Darth Vader section, in particular. There was scholarly examination on the writing found on the chest box, which was written in Hebrew, I believe, and translated roughly into, "He will not be forgiven until he merits." Talk about mindblowing! And totally fits with the theme of rise, fall, redemption!

However, Episodes 1-3 establish a wildly unstable, irrational and cruel character (and that's BEFORE his pledge to Palpatine). He is extremely selfish, yet totally lacks self-awareness. If taken as a series of six movies (rather than 3 OT, 3 PT), Anakin Skywalker is evil beyond redemption, and it invalidates anything remotely good about the character that happens later, including destroying the Emperor to save his son, and by extension, the galaxy. If the two trilogies are NOT kept firmly separated, then I would hate Darth Vader, even after his actions in Return of the Jedi.

Anyways, long post. Great discussion!

 

[YankeesFanboy]

I remember that commercial, buddy!

 

[momaw]

Interesting comments Rubio. I always saw Obi-wan as not sacrificing himself at all, but making the decision to become one with the force knowing he would continue as a conscious entity. His "earthly bound" duties were at an end (for reasons you mention) and he knew that moving on, particularly at that point, was what was needed. Obi-wan, Yoda and then Anakin essentially achieved immortality through the force. If you wanted to tie that to the PT, then it's essentially what Palpatine is describing to Anakin in the theatre regarding Darth Plagueis quest to stop death. It just didn't work out like they thought. I also wouldn't equate Anakin's younger self's selfishness and arrogance as an irredeemable trait. Most of us were like that to varying degrees when younger, but as we age that changes. The slaughter at the temple however is pretty hard to come back from, but at the same time we also knew Vader hunted down and destroyed the Jedi. If you really think about that, in order to achieve such a feat he would have had to do some pretty horrible things. In the OT world before midichlorians you got the sense that anyone at any time could become a Jedi so the lengths required to purge that kind of ability must have also caught up many innocents.

 

[rubio95]

Interesting comments Rubio. I always saw Obi-wan as not sacrificing himself at all, but making the decision to become one with the force knowing he would continue as a conscious entity. His "earthly bound" duties were at an end (for reasons you mention) and he knew that moving on, particularly at that point, was what was needed. Obi-wan, Yoda and then Anakin essentially achieved immortality through the force. If you wanted to tie that to the PT, then it's essentially what Palpatine is describing to Anakin in the theatre regarding Darth Plagueis quest to stop death. It just didn't work out like they thought. I also wouldn't equate Anakin's younger self's selfishness and arrogance as an irredeemable trait. Most of us were like that to varying degrees when younger, but as we age that changes. The slaughter at the temple however is pretty hard to come back from, but at the same time we also knew Vader hunted down and destroyed the Jedi. If you really think about that, in order to achieve such a feat he would have had to do some pretty horrible things. In the OT world before midichlorians you got the sense that anyone at any time could become a Jedi so the lengths required to purge that kind of ability must have also caught up many innocents.

I'm don't believe that Obi-Wan was sacrificing himself, either, and I wholeheartedly agree with your 'earthly bound' duties bit.

And to clarify, I find Anakin to be an irredeemable character strictly because of his slaughter of children. Both Tuskens and (I hate this term) Padawans. Hunting down and killing Jedi is not irredeemable to me, because they are worthy opponents. It's hard to cheer for a guy who murdered (many) children.

Thanks for commenting! This is fun!

 

[momaw]

I'm don't believe that Obi-Wan was sacrificing himself, either, and I wholeheartedly agree with your 'earthly bound' duties bit.

And to clarify, I find Anakin to be an irredeemable character strictly because of his slaughter of children. Both Tuskens and (I hate this term) Padawans. Hunting down and killing Jedi is not irredeemable to me, because they are worthy opponents. It's hard to cheer for a guy who murdered (many) children.

Thanks for commenting! This is fun!

Oh I agree. I just think the Jedi purge would have also included a purge of potential Jedi which would have included children. They likely hunted down and killed entire family lines. After all, the Empire had to earn it's hated reputation. But there is a difference between extrapolation and actually showing it.

 

[rubio95]

Oh I agree. I just think the Jedi purge would have also included a purge of potential Jedi which would have included children. They likely hunted down and killed entire family lines. After all, the Empire had to earn it's hated reputation. But there is a difference between extrapolation and actually showing it.

Agree 100%!!

That scene should not have made it into the film. Nor the lines of dialogue discussing it from Padme and Obi-Wan.

 

[Prime Clone]

There are records and/or stories of Samurai dueling wherein they circle each other for hours, never swinging, never attacking, waiting for the other to make ONE mistake, A wrong move, dipping the blade too low or too high, looking away at the right moment etc, and then finish their opponent in a swift, SINGLE move.

That's what I always thought this sequence was - a standoff, both opponents looking for an opening, with Obi-Wan perhaps reluctant to land a killing blow:

 

[loki2371]

Anyways, the reason for my post is that I actually think that the Obi-Wan/Darth Vader fight in ANH is the most important fight and contains the most important moment from the entire series (Prequel and OT). When Obi-Wan and Darth Vader are fighting, that's when the rest of the crew all make it to the hangar where the Falcon is waiting and ready to launch. As Luke is running across the way, he sees Obi-Wan, and Obi-Wan sees him. It is at this point that Obi-Wan ceases fighting and apparently starts his One-with-the Force ritual, and is cut down by Vader.

I believe that Obi-Wan felt that he had accomplished his 'mission' by essentially introducing son to father, or redeemer to sinner. I don't really think that Lucas had intended it to come across that way, but the look that comes across Obi-Wan's face is pretty powerful. Added to the fact that after giving that look, he STOPPED FIGHTING.

Even more than that, Obi-Wan and perhaps Yoda new (through force visions of the future) that eventually Luke would face Vader and that he needed to see for himself what his father had become and how truly corrupted he was by the darkside before he learned the truth that Vader was his father. Obi-Wan stressed how close and what good friends they had become when he told Luke he new his father. If Vader could easily kill his mentor, friend, and brother that easily without remorse or hesitation, Luke would see what could possibly happen to him (as seen in ESB during his trials in the cave on dagobah when he saw his face in Vaders mask). Especially if this happened before learning Vader was his father. If Vader found and captured him before these realizations he may have been able to persuade Luke to join him and the darkside so they could overthrow the Empire and rule the galaxy as "Father & Son". Luke hadn't become nearly as close to Leia and Han in that short time as he did to Obi-Wan so no true friendship bonds were formed yet. Vader would've easily been able to manipulate Luke's feelings and hatred for the Emperor to help achieve his goals. You can clearly see how Obi-Wans death would shape Lukes future after seeing him slaughtered before him. I believe Anakin sensed Padme was pregnant before she even told him so I'm sure once he was in close proximity with Luke he would've figured out he was his son. Vader wins, Rebels have no chance in hell. Obi-Wans true sacrifice... And of course to become one with the force.. True evil in every way!!! Go Anakin

 

[momaw]

That's what I always thought this sequence was - a standoff, both opponents looking for an opening, with Obi-Wan perhaps reluctant to land a killing blow:

And we know Lucas drew direct inspiration from Kurosawa's samurai films.

 

[Prime Clone]

Yup!

Even more than that, Obi-Wan and perhaps Yoda new (through force visions of the future) that eventually Luke would face Vader and that he needed to see for himself what his father had become and how truly corrupted he was by the darkside before he learned the truth that Vader was his father.

It was inevitable Luke would face Vader, if that was his final test before becoming a Jedi.

Also, if anyone is following the new canon Marvel Star Wars series...

Spoiler

Luke comes face-to-face with Vader in the very first issue! He wants to take him on but is nowhere near ready, so Spirit Ben does his "Run Luke!" line again.

 

[CriterionCollector]

Samurai swords aren't as valued as weapons as pop culture seems to suggest. Most samurai were judged by their horse-riding and archery skills. Swordmanship was secondary.
I can say this because:




Haters

 

[demorathis]

The death of Ben Kenobi served several purposes.
1.
It was indeed a sacrifice since it was the only way Luke and the rest would escape the clutches of the empire with the Death Star plans vs trying to save Ben and risk gettin g killed in the process,
2. He already introduced and trained albeit limited , Luke in the ways of he force, enough to win the battle for this one film ( had it been the one and only)
3. It gives the plot a down point so that the hero takes a big hit.
4. It shows he has further knowledge about the force, that exceeds even the dark side's understanding the way vader is perplexed and even steps on the cloak
Ultimately, and it works out for the rest of the series, it shows that that the way to "life everlasting" Is by being able to let it go in sacrifice for a greater good vs trying to prolong it via cybernetics or artificial means the way the dark side always tries to prevent death, as also referenced in the film series and tv shows.