Media Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain & Ground Zeroes

[Dellyboy]

Whedon is overrated firefly was good but his other stuff stinks.

I liked Angel. But hated Cabbage in the woods, it stunk worse than a rotting vegetable patch.

 

[Privyet]

 

[J3D1_KN1GHT]

Unfortunately I would be one of those people. I was pretty young when I played it for the first time and a lot of it was missed on me until I was older

Yup. SNAP!
I had no idea what was going on with all the damn games, just thought they were the best thing ever picking them up on release and hammering them to completion. I loved them all really, even MGS4. Wasn't until I was older (or old enough to care) that I begun to piece together the whole story.

I must admit I rarely play many games through again, though at the time I got MGS1 on import before euro release and it wasn't in English so had to get it again when it dropped in ol' blighty!

 

[WellCQCaboutthat]

Holy negative marks.............batman.

 

[FSLAR]

so uh, I saw that Escape from New York happened to be on TV and I've been watching

ZOMG

 

[Darth Zangetsu]

I believe the true evil came from Castro, not Guevara, this is a man who saw the most severe poverty caused by the "bourgeoisie" and wanted to do something about it, I'd hardly call him a cold blooded killer, it was guerrilla after all, everybody kills for their respective cause, it was after Castro came to power when the communism began, I disagree with his sociopolitical and views, yeah he co-founded Castro's Cuba, but it was Castro who twisted Guevara's views and turned that country into the communist fort it is today, I wouldn't call him a hero either, it's just symbol for revolutionary wannabe kids to put on their T-shirts

I was annoyed to by how glorified they made him look in PW, the peace and freedom theme in PW would have been a lot better without mentioning him.

I don't know much about politics, I just know I like private property

Not to keep this political, but I agree. Che was a complicated person. He was by no means perfect. He was a man, who made choices and saw them through to the end. Some of his ideals were excellent, some not so much. But at the end of the day, he was just a man. Hell, at his death, he berated the guy who was supposed to execute him for seeing him as anything else. I do not think Che would want the celebrity he has achieved. He definitely would be against corporations using his image as a "cool way to move products." like most people in history, he is not the lionized hero his "fans" think he is, but neither is he the "monster" his detractors think he his. He was just a man, as complicated and simple as the rest of us.

 

[Dylan]

Not to keep this political, but I agree. Che was a complicated person. He was by no means perfect. He was a man, who made choices and saw them through to the end. Some of his ideals were excellent, some not so much. But at the end of the day, he was just a man. Hell, at his death, he berated the guy who was supposed to execute him for seeing him as anything else. I do not think Che would want the celebrity he has achieved. He definitely would be against corporations using his image as a "cool way to move products." like most people in history, he is not the lionized hero his "fans" think he is, but neither is he the "monster" his detractors think he his. He was just a man, as complicated and simple as the rest of us.

I am pretty sure this is why Kojima compares them. I personally think Che started as a good guy and lost his way. Others think of him as a revolutionary and others as a terrorist. I think we are all supposed to feel this conflicted about Big Boss.

 

[pturtle]

Whedon is overrated firefly was good but his other stuff stinks.

He is extremely overrated. I find the dialogue he writes to be bland and cringe worthy sometimes. Lets not forget he wrote one of the worst line in the history cinema.

 

[Jackhepburn]

Well, I found the extra-ops missions and Monster Hunter stuff were A LOT of fun, and Date with Kaz was... strangely entertaining (I'll admit that). Like I told you before, Peace Walker is definitely the most fun I've had with a single MGS game, because of all of its extra content.

Some of the new characters were so annoying, though. I couldn't stand Chico's voice and his whacked-out conspiracy theories, and Huey just seemed like a character-clone of Otacon. Don't even get me started with "The Boss" mecha, the singing AIs, and the J-pop song at the end . The storyline was far too "Japanese" for its own good.

Edit: And in addition, there's the retconing of REX's origins, the constant praise to that monster Che Guevara, etc. Ugh..

You literally just described EXACTLY how I see Peace Walker. Although MGS3 for me was the most fun and also the best, I dont know what it is about it, just loved it all.

 

[Darth Zangetsu]

He is extremely overrated. I find the dialogue he writes to be bland and cringe worthy sometimes. Lets not forget he wrote one of the worst line in the history cinema.

Ok, I'm curious. What was the line? Oh and i'm not trying to be argumentative or combative. I like Whedon okay, but i agree a great percentage of his fandom is scary. While I enjoyed Avengers, the so called dramatic moments(Coulson's death, Tony's sacrifice) seemed hollow. Plus I hated that all the character development by Tony in IM2 was retconned so he could be a quip machine. But I do love Firefly and Serenity unabashedly.

 

[Snake Plissken]

so uh, I saw that Escape from New York happened to be on TV and I've been watching

ZOMG

I was watching it too.

 

[Dylan]

He is extremely overrated. I find the dialogue he writes to be bland and cringe worthy sometimes. Lets not forget he wrote one of the worst line in the history cinema.

While I agree Whedon is about as over rated as it gets this is still the worst line in history.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGNoiWYu0uA skip to the 2:20 mark

 

[Solidus]

I am pretty sure this is why Kojima compares them. I personally think Che started as a good guy and lost his way. Others think of him as a revolutionary and others as a terrorist. I think we are all supposed to feel this conflicted about Big Boss.

I find that those on the far-left are grossly misinformed on Guevara, and it's often the case that they try to romanticize him. It's just like the martyrdom that they unabashingly portray with Sacco and Vanzetti, even though later evidence has shown that the two were indeed guilty.

Che oversaw the executions of hundreds of "revolutionaries" from the previous regime. And I use that in quotes because it's often the case that the accused were innocent civilians who had no links to Batista at all. They weren't even granted due process to argue a defense for their cases. He also spouted enormous racial bigotry against blacks in his writings, and in addition to Castro, he supported North Korea and Stalin's Russia. I can go on with a lot more, but you can Google the rest for information. The Cuban Americans that I've met in NYC - whose families have suffered through the brutality of Castro, are very broken-hearted by how some are so disillusioned with Guevara.

I guess my case in point, is that Guevara and Big Boss were nothing alike. Big Boss couldn't care less about politics; whether countries supported the free-market or Socialism, he hated it all, and even more so with Zero's involvement in the world scene. His main motivation for war was simply, to seek retribution for The Boss's death and to take the entire world down with him in flames. And his differences with Zero, provided the perfect opportunity for him to do that. With all of that said, it was a flaw on Kojima's part to try and draw correlations between Che and Big Boss.

Ok, I'm curious. What was the line? Oh and i'm not trying to be argumentative or combative. I like Whedon okay, but i agree a great percentage of his fandom is scary. While I enjoyed Avengers, the so called dramatic moments(Coulson's death, Tony's sacrifice) seemed hollow. Plus I hated that all the character development by Tony in IM2 was retconned so he could be a quip machine. But I do love Firefly and Serenity unabashedly.

Firefly's my favorite Sci-fi series. I also thoroughly enjoyed Cabin in the Woods .

 

[Jackhepburn]

I also enjoyed Cabin in the Woods

 

[Solidus]

I don't understand why that movie is hated so much . The entire thing was pretty much satire on every type of horror movie ever made.

 

[Dylan]

I find that those on the far-left are grossly misinformed on Guevara, and it's often the case that they try to romanticize him. It's just like the martyrdom that they unabashingly portray with Sacco and Vanzetti, even though later evidence has shown that two were indeed guilty.

Che oversaw the executions of hundreds of "revolutionaries" from the previous regime. And I use that in quotes because it's often the case that the accused were innocent civilians who had no links to Batista at all. They weren't even granted due process to argue a defense for their cases. He also spouted enormous racial bigotry against blacks in his writings, and in addition to Castro, he supported North Korea and Stalin's Russia. I can go on with a lot more, but you can Google the rest for information. The Cuban Americans that I've met in NYC - whose families have suffered through the brutality of Castro, are very broken-hearted by how some are so disillusioned with Guevara.

I guess my case in point, is that Guevara and Big Boss were nothing alike. Big Boss couldn't care less about politics; whether countries supported the free-market or Socialism, he hated it all, and even more so with Zero's involvement in the world scene. His main motivation for war was simply, to seek retribution for The Boss's death and to take the entire world down with him in flames. And his differences with Zero, provided the perfect opportunity for him to do that. With all of that said, it was a flaw on Kojima's part to try and draw correlations between the two.



Firefly's my favorite Sci-fi series. I also thoroughly enjoyed Cabin in the Woods .

No I get all of that trust me. But I think you missed what I was trying to say. I am not saying the things they do are similar I am just saying peoples perception of them are similar. Some regard Big Boss as a hero, some regard him as a mad man, some regard him as a soldier who lost his way. Those three opinions also exist about Che.

 

[Solidus]

No I get all of that trust me. But I think you missed what I was trying to say. I am not saying the things they do are similar I am just saying peoples perception of them are similar. Some regard Big Boss as a hero, some regard him as a mad man, some regard him as a soldier who lost his way. Those three opinions also exist about Che.

I know what you're saying man, and I agree. I just wanted to add a little more to my post because of the "Che" discussions that were going on here . But, the discourse of those presumed similarities wasn't fully established in Peace Walker. Kojima's view on Che was very one-sided - maybe because he was misinformed, or even maybe because of his own personal politics. So, the correlations between Big Boss and Che (in the game) didn't make any sense at all. Of course, maybe Big Boss will degenerate into this mad man, who'll eventually start killing innocent people in MGS V. But, that comes at a much later time, when the assumed relevance between him and Che would have long since evaporated from Peace Walker .

 

[Dylan]

I know what you're saying man, and I agree. I just wanted to add a little more to my post because of the "Che" discussions that were going on here . But, the discourse of those presumed similarities wasn't fully established in Peace Walker. Kojima's view on Che was very one-sided - maybe because he was misinformed, or even maybe because of his own personal politics. So, the correlations between Big Boss and Che (in the game) didn't make any sense at all. Of course, maybe Big Boss will degenerate into this mad man, who'll eventually start killing innocent people in MGS V. But, that comes at a much later time, when the assumed relevance between him and Che would have long since evaporated from Peace Walker .

Well he is a hipster after all

 

[Solidus]

Well he is a hipster after all

More like a flower child. Kaz, Paz, University of Peace, Peace Walker, peace this, peace that. Good god...

 

[Darth Zangetsu]

I find that those on the far-left are grossly misinformed on Guevara, and it's often the case that they try to romanticize him. It's just like the martyrdom that they unabashingly portray with Sacco and Vanzetti, even though later evidence has shown that two were indeed guilty.

Che oversaw the executions of hundreds of "revolutionaries" from the previous regime. And I use that in quotes because it's often the case that the accused were innocent civilians who had no links to Batista at all. They weren't even granted due process to argue a defense for their cases. He also spouted enormous racial bigotry against blacks in his writings, and in addition to Castro, he supported North Korea and Stalin's Russia. I can go on with a lot more, but you can Google the rest for information. The Cuban Americans that I've met in NYC - whose families have suffered through the brutality of Castro, are very broken-hearted by how some are so disillusioned with Guevara.

I guess my case in point, is that Guevara and Big Boss were nothing alike. Big Boss couldn't care less about politics; whether countries supported the free-market or Socialism, he hated it all, and even more so with Zero's involvement in the world scene. His main motivation for war was simply, to seek retribution for The Boss's death and to take the entire world down with him in flames. And his differences with Zero, provided the perfect opportunity for him to do that. With all of that said, it was a flaw on Kojima's part to try and draw correlations between Che and Big Boss.



Firefly's my favorite Sci-fi series. I also thoroughly enjoyed Cabin in the Woods .

I never said Che was anything more than a man. Was he ruthless? Absolutely. You do not get the nickname Butcher of La Cabana for being a nice guy. Was he a racist and homophobe? Yes, from most of his own writings it could be inferred that he held less than positive views of certain groups. But again he is just a man. Nothing more. Some of his ideals were spot on, others were horribly wrong. I would never call Che a saint. But I wouldn't call him the devil either. He was a brilliant tactician. Even the Pentagon to this day studies his guerilla tactics. And his original intentions came from a desire to help oppressed people. I think he lost his way though.

Many individuals throughout history are lionized despite some horrific things they did or believed. The American Founding Fathers are all heroes, yet they owned slaves. They held some negative views towards blacks and the native American population. But they still have statues and monuments. History is messy. Human beings want to categorize everything in black and white, when often there is an exceptional amount of grey. There are few who are at ease with moral ambiguity, so for the most part people act like they don't exist.

Firefly comes in 3rd for me behind BSG(new one) and Fringe. I like Cabin in the Woods too. I wasn't aware that people didn't like it.