Media Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain & Ground Zeroes

[franpincho]

I do actually believe that Jack Bauer is the baddest man of the planet. He can destroy Norris. He makes "The Shield" macho Vic Makey make him breakfast. He can kill Snake Pliskeen with a finger (sorry bud!) etc etc etc.
He's the greatest Canadian export ever.

I have very single season of 24: individual sets and the whole freaking collection as well. And I will not hesitate to buy it again once it finally comes out on Blu. I LOVE Keifer. Jack Bauer is the definition of what a total badass should be.

Is it so weird that I just DONT like him as BB? I don't think so. I'm sure I'm not alone here. Hayter really seems very sincere about his love for the franchise, and he's damn well right about being bitter about this whole thing. The way he was given the boot speaks a lot about Kojima.

But what the F do I know. I only started playing MGS in 1998.

After 8 hrs of playtime I haven't touched the game again. While fun, it gets repetitive very quick.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[pturtle]

I do actually believe that Jack Bauer is the baddest man of the planet. He can destroy Norris. He makes "The Shield" macho Vic Makey make him breakfast. He can kill Snake Pliskeen with a finger (sorry bud!) etc etc etc.
He's the greatest Canadian export ever.

I have very single season of 24: individual sets and the whole freaking collection as well. And I will not hesitate to buy it again once it finally comes out on Blu. I LOVE Keifer. Jack Bauer is the definition of what a total badass should be.

Is it so weird that I just DONT like him as BB? I don't think so. I'm sure I'm not alone here. Hayter really seems very sincere about his love for the franchise, and he's damn well right about being bitter about this whole thing. The way he was given the boot speaks a lot about Kojima.

But what the F do I know. I only started playing MGS in 1998.

After 8 hrs of playtime I haven't touched the game again. While fun, it gets repetitive very quick.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I always liked Kiefer Sutherland, he starred in some of my childhood classics like The Lost Boys, and Stand By Me, but I just can’t get into 24. He has a distinct voice though, I think it fits BB pretty perfectly, but I can understand the guys who only hear Jack Bauer because they watched 8 seasons of the man. I couldn’t imagine James Gandolfini taking the role of BB, that would probably bother me like crazy

 

[pturtle]

https://www.siliconera.com/2014/04/02/hideo-kojima-influences-references-behind-metal-gear-solid-v/

Metal Gear series creator Hideo Kojima is known for his love of films and novels, from which he often throws various references into his games. The man recently kicked back with 4Gamer to talk about some of the influences and references behind Metal Gear Solid V.



Kojima has been quite the busy bee lately, with all the work he’s put into Metal Gear Solid V. 4Gamer expresses their concern, and asks if he’s still been able to relax and watch movies as he’s known for being fond of.



“I try to read at least two books a week,” shares Kojima. “I also watch foreign TV shows at least once a day. I’ve currently watched up until the second season of Breaking Bad. Luther is also very interesting. After having watched those shows, I really can’t go back to watching Japanese TV series.”



Due to having an interest in western movies and TV shows, Kojima feels like he has trouble talking to those around him, who don’t exactly share the same enthusiasm.



“I really don’t have much time, so I can only read about one or two books per week,” he continues. “Actually, there are some people on our staff who read about one-and-a-half books a day. You can see them reading while walking around. It’s like they use their left eye to look at their surroundings and their right eye to read.” He adds with a laugh, “And then they just go to the bookstore to buy more books.”



4Gamer notes that the Metal Gear Solid series seems to have a lot of ideas and references from various films and novels. They ask if there’s anything fans should check out before playing Metal Gear Solid V.



Hideo Kojima On The Influences And References In Metal Gear Solid V screenshot

“There’s actually not that many [references],” Kojima replies. “Well, I did intentionally try a one-shot technique, such as the one seen in Hitchcock’s Rope* but some people who saw the film, Gravity, that depicted a similar one-shot scene, told me ‘hey, you ripped it off from there!’ You really can’t just rip things off recent movies like that,” says Kojima with a laugh.

*A 1948 thriller directed by Alfred Hitchcock.


While on the subject of influences, Kojima talks about how various material is used to inspire the art and music of Metal Gear Solid V. We know that George Orwell’s dystopian novel Nineteen Eighty-Four was one of the major influences behind the game. Then there’s also “Diamond Dogs,” a single by David Bowie, which is also the same name of the mercenary unit that was led by Big Boss.



“Yeah, yeah! I originally wanted to have the story start out with that song being sung,” exclaims Kojima with a laugh. “But I’m always being rejected by our staff members. I’m the only old man around, so most people don’t get it. Even if I offer to lend them the CD, they won’t listen to it.”



(As an aside, while 4Gamer might side with Kojima on this one, I’m not too sure how I’d feel about having a Metal Gear Solid game open with this song. Maybe if it started with Big Boss cruising down the highway on a motorcycle… maybe.)



Finally, 4Gamer asks if there are some more things from Nineteen Eighty-Four or other things as references you might find in Metal Gear Solid V.



“Metal Gear Solid always had references, so you might also find stuff from Moby ****,” says Kojima. “People who know a lot about it might realize it once they play it. However, it’s not like we’re just throwing it out there in front of the screen. I think it’d be nice if it can get those who don’t understand the reference to check it out and find out for themselves.”



Photograph courtesy 4Gamer.


Read more at https://www.siliconera.com/2014/04/...ehind-metal-gear-solid-v/#VEt2xVF1UieszWwI.99

 

[ronri]

While I love Hayter's work for Snake, personally one of the things that always rubbed me the wrong way was how his view of the character almost always seemed to clash with how Kojima interpreted the character (specifically Solid Snake I mean). Of course, there's the continuous lumping of BB and Snake but while I recognize that Hayter acknowledges it's different characters, the way he talks about them at times comes across as if they're just one character in different continuities which always threw me off in his interviews. At least with Kojima there's that constant reminder that you know when he's talking about BB that he's talking about BB, or if he's talking about Solid Snake he's talking about Solid Snake, because he really gets into what makes them distinct from each other.

I mean yeah, Hayter got treated like crap (which really did suck) and while it's fair enough to feel bitter about it, he really could've handled it better. I mean as a fan of Ocelot, I LOVE Patric Zimmerman's work and yet I see no huge complaints going around on how Troy Baker is suddenly taking on the role (not that I'm complaining, Troy Baker sounds fine from the trailers). As an aside, I do love how Zimmerman interpreted Liquid Ocelot's role though, he says that considering how Ocelot has always been a very scheming and bombastic character, he thought it was perfectly natural for him to adopt Liquid's personality to act even more grand than before as Snake's new "brother" and how it actually fits in his idea of the character.

Anyway back to Hayter.... I don't know, I get that he gave a lot (and I mean A LOT) to the role on an international level, but I feel a sense of entitlement on his part that just rubs me the wrong way at times, especially since I actually have read a lot of notes and material on Kojima and Shinkawa's contributions (art books interviews etc.) regarding the creation of these characters so as to not just lump their significance and legacy on one English voice actor. Then there's the fact that Kojima's attachment towards Snake/BB's voice delivery falls squarely on Akio Otsuka's voice acting based on his interviews, which really says a lot.

I'm no Kojima apologist (the guy has a derpy charm but can also have ideas that are face-palm worthy), but when it comes to the creation and legacy of these characters, I definitely account for Kojima and Shinkawa's contributions first and the voice-acting second (but only by a small margin as voices can make or break a character).

 

[Solidus]

I'll start watching it this spring break, on your recommendation :

It speaks lengths of the franchise that your dad got into the series, older fellows are usually a tougher crowd, my dad rarely says he really likes something, he always says "meh it was ok" cause he can see right through the BS writing, but I bet he would like MGS too, I'll try to get him to like it next time I have a chat with him.

If you really just need a quick fix of 24 to get a feel of the series and a taste of Jack Bauer, watch 24: Redemption! It's a short 89 minute movie that bridges the gap between seasons 6 and 7. You probably won't understand some of the plot, but Bauer's in Africa and he kills some bad guys who use child soldiers - so that's pretty awesome!

Even though I can't stand a few of the games, MGS is a very intriguing series and I guess a lot of older folks might be inclined to pay attention to it (if you can hold their hands while going through the danged thing). But, then again, my dad watches Animaniacs and Looney Toons .

I do actually believe that Jack Bauer is the baddest man of the planet. He can destroy Norris. He makes "The Shield" macho Vic Makey make him breakfast. He can kill Snake Pliskeen with a finger (sorry bud!) etc etc etc.
He's the greatest Canadian export ever.

I have very single season of 24: individual sets and the whole freaking collection as well. And I will not hesitate to buy it again once it finally comes out on Blu. I LOVE Keifer. Jack Bauer is the definition of what a total badass should be.

Is it so weird that I just DONT like him as BB? I don't think so. I'm sure I'm not alone here. Hayter really seems very sincere about his love for the franchise, and he's damn well right about being bitter about this whole thing. The way he was given the boot speaks a lot about Kojima.

But what the F do I know. I only started playing MGS in 1998.

After 8 hrs of playtime I haven't touched the game again. While fun, it gets repetitive very quick.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[pturtle]

While I love Hayter's work for Snake, personally one of the things that always rubbed me the wrong way was how his view of the character almost always seemed to clash with how Kojima interpreted the character (specifically Solid Snake I mean). Of course, there's the continuous lumping of BB and Snake but while I recognize that Hayter acknowledges it's different characters, the way he talks about them at times comes across as if they're just one character in different continuities which always threw me off in his interviews. At least with Kojima there's that constant reminder that you know when he's talking about BB that he's talking about BB, or if he's talking about Solid Snake he's talking about Solid Snake, because he really gets into what makes them distinct from each other.

I mean yeah, Hayter got treated like crap (which really did suck) and while it's fair enough to feel bitter about it, he really could've handled it better. I mean as a fan of Ocelot, I LOVE Patric Zimmerman's work and yet I see no huge complaints going around on how Troy Baker is suddenly taking on the role (not that I'm complaining, Troy Baker sounds fine from the trailers). As an aside, I do love how Zimmerman interpreted Liquid Ocelot's role though, he says that considering how Ocelot has always been a very scheming and bombastic character, he thought it was perfectly natural for him to adopt Liquid's personality to act even more grand than before as Snake's new "brother" and how it actually fits in his idea of the character.

Anyway back to Hayter.... I don't know, I get that he gave a lot (and I mean A LOT) to the role on an international level, but I feel a sense of entitlement on his part that just rubs me the wrong way at times, especially since I actually have read a lot of notes and material on Kojima and Shinkawa's contributions (art books interviews etc.) regarding the creation of these characters so as to not just lump their significance and legacy on one English voice actor. Then there's the fact that Kojima's attachment towards Snake/BB's voice delivery falls squarely on Akio Otsuka's voice acting based on his interviews, which really says a lot.

I'm no Kojima apologist (the guy has a derpy charm but can also have ideas that are face-palm worthy), but when it comes to the creation and legacy of these characters, I definitely account for Kojima and Shinkawa's contributions first and the voice-acting second (but only by a small margin as voices can make or break a character).

You nailed it, I don’t know if you listened to the interview, but the way he tried to justify why he should still be voicing Big Boss made no sense, and makes think he really doesn’t understand the character that well.

 

[Solidus]

While I love Hayter's work for Snake, personally one of the things that always rubbed me the wrong way was how his view of the character almost always seemed to clash with how Kojima interpreted the character (specifically Solid Snake I mean). Of course, there's the continuous lumping of BB and Snake but while I recognize that Hayter acknowledges it's different characters, the way he talks about them at times comes across as if they're just one character in different continuities which always threw me off in his interviews. At least with Kojima there's that constant reminder that you know when he's talking about BB that he's talking about BB, or if he's talking about Solid Snake he's talking about Solid Snake, because he really gets into what makes them distinct from each other.

I mean yeah, Hayter got treated like crap (which really did suck) and while it's fair enough to feel bitter about it, he really could've handled it better. I mean as a fan of Ocelot, I LOVE Patric Zimmerman's work and yet I see no huge complaints going around on how Troy Baker is suddenly taking on the role (not that I'm complaining, Troy Baker sounds fine from the trailers). As an aside, I do love how Zimmerman interpreted Liquid Ocelot's role though, he says that considering how Ocelot has always been a very scheming and bombastic character, he thought it was perfectly natural for him to adopt Liquid's personality to act even more grand than before as Snake's new "brother" and how it actually fits in his idea of the character.

Anyway back to Hayter.... I don't know, I get that he gave a lot (and I mean A LOT) to the role on an international level, but I feel a sense of entitlement on his part that just rubs me the wrong way at times, especially since I actually have read a lot of notes and material on Kojima and Shinkawa's contributions (art books interviews etc.) regarding the creation of these characters so as to not just lump their significance and legacy on one English voice actor. Then there's the fact that Kojima's attachment towards Snake/BB's voice delivery falls squarely on Akio Otsuka's voice acting based on his interviews, which really says a lot.

I'm no Kojima apologist (the guy has a derpy charm but can also have ideas that are face-palm worthy), but when it comes to the creation and legacy of these characters, I definitely account for Kojima and Shinkawa's contributions first and the voice-acting second.

It's funny, because I never got the sense that Kojima did a good job in separating the characters. Big Boss has constantly been referred to as "Snake" (instead of taking on his true title as "Big Boss) and I view him as nothing more than a carbon-copy of Solid Snake in his mannerisms. It's true that David Hayter provided the voices for both characters, but so did (or, rather, does) Akio Otsuka. But, with that said, I can at least appreciate how Big Boss was finally being referred to as "Boss" instead of "Snake" in Ground Zeroes.

In a sense, I think David Hayter's sense of entitlement is well deserved considering how long he has been with this series, and he also paid out of his own pocket to recast the original voice actors for TTS. Something that like takes dedication - the type of dedication that you'd expect from a true fan.

I think Kojima is too much of an auteur for his own good. He doesn't seem to like when his opinions are questioned, and if I can recall correctly, he has never even followed David Hayter once on Twitter, or even referred to him by name. He has always treated the man as if he doesn't exist.

Edit: By the way, the David Hayter interview is finally up!

https://joypadandme.com/2014/04/02/podcast-episode-50-metal-gear-podcast-featuring-david-hayter/

 

[ronri]

@Solidus:

Yeah that's fair enough! I mean, I'm definitely not disregarding Hayter's work here, I guess the main difference in opinion for me is that personally while I think that he has every right to feel entitled, I still think there's a limit in regards to how much he can make claims in terms of molding the character. Honestly, I feel that BB's referral as "Snake" feels more like a catch-all thing where Kojima thought it'd be cool for the original source of the clones to be "the original" Snake. Sure it was only introduced in MGS3, but I can't help but feel that Kojima simply found something interesting to play with in regards to the hero-turned-villain role of Big Boss, and dubbing him as a Snake certainly felt like it was done for the cool factor than necessarily snuffing out Solid Snake's character.

 

[Solidus]

The "ego" thing goes all the way back to the mistreatment - or rather, his blatant lack of interest in the localizations of MGS 1 and 2. There are people like Agnes Kaku and Jeremy Blaustein who can attest to the hardships that they experienced while trying to communicate with Kojima and his people at Konami.

Kojima is representing his company, so of course, he has to show a good face to the public - and he is certainly a very experienced PR spokesman, especially in the way he tried to downplay the immediate issues with Ground Zeroes on his Twitter page. I even remember when he did an interview with Kotaku in 2008, and it gave the vibe that he was proud of being a humble Japanese man - sort of a contradiction there.

 

[ronri]

Haha, I do think Kojima has a huge ego, but it's that dorky man-child quality who just loves what he does that allows me to him a pass in some respects. Admittedly that whole "Kojima kaminandesu" with Cecile's name in PW was definitely pushing it. It's like Miller was suddenly possessed by Kojima himself.

As one of the few remaining "auteur" game designers out there that has a huge creative influence over his own works, I can understand some of Kojima's sentiments regarding his team (not all of them, but some of them). That said, at least he goes out of his way to say that he does feel bad towards them for feeling that way, hence why he has hard time on taking a more strict stance towards his own team and why he listens when they say that some of his ideas are a little wonky (which is good too since it's like a bunch of internal editors without the leash/pressure of the suits).

EDIT- Just realized that pturtle's post disappeared.

 

[Solidus]

Haha, I do think Kojima has a huge ego, but it's that man-child quality who just loves what he does that makes me forgive him in that respect. Admittedly that whole "Kojima kaminandesu" in PW was pushing it. It's like Kaz was suddenly possessed by Kojima himself.

As one of the few remaining "auteur" game designers out there that has a huge creative influence over his own works, I can understand some of Kojima's sentiments regarding his team. That said, at least he goes out of his way to say that he does feel bad towards them for feeling that way, hence why he has hard time on taking a more strict stance towards his own team and why he listens when they say that some of his ideas are a little wonky (which is good too since it's like an internal editor without the pressure of execs).

Ugh... "Kojima kaminandesu"

Yeah, don't get me wrong, I love Kojima despite his apparent character flaws . He has a very whimsical sense of intrigue in his stories (albeit some very incoherent and weird things), that I deeply appreciate.

I'm at least glad that he decided to keep the exclamation marks for alert statuses in Ground Zeroes. I just hope his team can convince him to return some other features as well for TPP (like knocking, for example).

 

[GasparZizou]

I was thinking the other day, Big Boss didn't really drop the codename Snake, he just reclaimed the nickname Big Boss at the end of PW.

So the differentiating aspects come from the characters themselves, Big Boss is a charismatic more serious leader, Solid Snake is a good guy smooth talker underdog, and Kiefer did a fantastic job differentiating the characters with his voice, BB has now authority in his voice and mannerisms, and I never got that from Hayter since he was always playing Solid Snake, and Solid Snake does not have that personality.

Given, Solid Snake is the most likeable character of the two, even in MGS4, I like the way he's jaded and he's just waiting for the mission to end while everybody is ******** their pants in the briefing room, In MGS1 the way he talks to the ladies and has a smart *** attitude sometimes and Big Boss has a more nuanced, equable & stoic personality, Kief nailed it in that regard and I don't want to go back to the days BB and Solid where portrayed the same way.

 

[ronri]

I was thinking the other day, Big Boss didn't really drop the codename Snake, he just reclaimed the nickname Big Boss at the end of PW.

So the differentiating aspects come from the characters themselves, Big Boss is a charismatic more serious leader, Solid Snake is a good guy smooth talker underdog, and Kiefer did a fantastic job differentiating the characters with his voice, BB has now authority in his voice and mannerisms, and I never got that from Hayter since he was always playing Solid Snake, and Solid Snake does not have that personality.

Given, Solid Snake is the most likeable character of the two, even in MGS4, I like the way he's jaded and he's just waiting for the mission to end while everybody is ******** their pants in the briefing room, In MGS1 the way he talks to the ladies and has a smart *** attitude sometimes and Big Boss has a more nuanced, equable & stoic personality, Kief nailed it in that regard and I don't want to go back to the days BB and Solid where portrayed the same way.

Agreed wholeheartedly. One of the good things to come out of Kief's voice work is that it really gives an authoritative and nuanced sense in BB's character akin to what we saw of him in MGS4. It's something that I always felt that Hayter struggled with (his voice for Solid Snake is perfect though and matches the "smooth-talker" vibe of the character really well).

 

[Frank Jaeger]

You nailed it, I don’t know if you listened to the interview, but the way he tried to justify why he should still be voicing Big Boss made no sense, and makes think he really doesn’t understand the character that well.

How would you know exactly

Considering as of August last year you had never even played a MGS game?

It's obvious you weren't ever a fan of the series growing up, so I have time taking anything you say seriously, in regards to any of the games that came before it

 

[ZombieRepublican]

I was thinking the other day, Big Boss didn't really drop the codename Snake, he just reclaimed the nickname Big Boss at the end of PW.

So the differentiating aspects come from the characters themselves, Big Boss is a charismatic more serious leader, Solid Snake is a good guy smooth talker underdog, and Kiefer did a fantastic job differentiating the characters with his voice, BB has now authority in his voice and mannerisms, and I never got that from Hayter since he was always playing Solid Snake, and Solid Snake does not have that personality.

Given, Solid Snake is the most likeable character of the two, even in MGS4, I like the way he's jaded and he's just waiting for the mission to end while everybody is ******** their pants in the briefing room, In MGS1 the way he talks to the ladies and has a smart *** attitude sometimes and Big Boss has a more nuanced, equable & stoic personality, Kief nailed it in that regard and I don't want to go back to the days BB and Solid where portrayed the same way.

You hit the nail on the head man. BigBoss reminds me of Gibs from NCIS, the charasmatic and stoic commander as you said. While Snake is more like Wolverine from the x-men movies the wise cracking outsider, the lone wolf badass.

But while Hayter did do a decent job separating the characers, his delivery was still to similar and suited more towards SolidSnakes character.

 

[Cap'n Cook]

How would you know exactly

Considering as of August last year you had never even played a MGS game?

It's obvious you weren't ever a fan of the series growing up, so I have time taking anything you say seriously, in regards to any of the games that came before it

So....his opinion is somehow less valid?

Sorry but I don't understand.

 

[Frank Jaeger]

In context of the conversation to me, yes. Do i really need to write imo or whatever after everything i post for people to understand it's a POV?

If you'd never played any of the other games or have only watched online play through's until recent times, how would one know any of the feelings that people developed while growing up with Hayter voicing Snake? They would have no connection to him or the character really in the context it was being discussed, so can't really have a valid point. How would he know how Hayter felt? without really experiencing the whole of Hayters career as Snake as even an outsider just playing as Snake. You can't come in at the end and lay laws down about something you haven't even experienced or followed for 10+ years, sorry.

It's been touched on before in here but someone who played the games when they came out, will most likely have different feelings for the characters and story than somebody who has had no emotional investment on a level up until recently times. Not a bad thing sure, if you just got into the series that's fine, but don't talk about past things that you got no way of relating to

So....his opinion is somehow less valid?

Sorry but I don't understand.

 

[Snake Plissken]

In context of the conversation to me, yes. Do i really need to write imo or whatever after everything i post for people to understand it's a POV?

If you'd never played any of the other games or have only watched online play through's until recent times, how would one know any of the feelings that people developed while growing up with Hayter voicing Snake? They would have no connection to him or the character really in the context it was being discussed, so can't really have a valid point. How would he know how Hayter felt? without really experiencing the whole of Hayters career as Snake as even an outsider just playing as Snake. You can't come in at the end and lay laws down about something you haven't even experienced or followed for 10+ years, sorry.

It's been touched on before in here but someone who played the games when they came out, will most likely have different feelings for the characters and story than somebody who has had no emotional investment on a level up until recently times. Not a bad thing sure, if you just got into the series that's fine, but don't talk about past things that you got no way of relating to

*in before elitist comment*

 

[Cap'n Cook]

No I'm not saying you have to put IMO. A useless suffix that I never use.

However your post came across quite condescending which is why I questioned it.

 

[Solidus]

No I'm not saying you have to put IMO. A useless suffix that I never use.

However your post came across quite condescending which is why I questioned it.

Well, Snake, it really goes back to a lot of the **** talking that's been happening in this thread for months - especially against David Hayter. If I actually knew about what Frank mentioned about said person well before, I would have just stayed out of arguing and laughed at the situation instead of participating in it and making it worse . I'm sure it would have been the same for others as well.

*in before elitist comment*

It's not even worth our time to get worked up about it anymore .