Media Metal Gear Solid V: The Phantom Pain & Ground Zeroes

[Solidus]

You didn't play as Raiden per se, but I know what you mean. He mentioned he did the Tanker mission in VR, which in turn meant Raiden is really the player since WE did the Tanker mission.

Yeah, that plus Snake was hinting that that as well. It's completely reasonable to conclude that the E32000 footage was actually canon.

Oh, the entire Ghost Babel mission was Raiden's VR simulation as well. To get that ending, you have to beat the game and get 100% on the VR Missions.

What the acutal ****? This gif seems applicable...

 

[Jameson Rook]

What was the ending? I don't think I ever got that. I don't own GB anymore but I did complete it.

The ending was (the A.I) Colonel Campbell congratulating "Jack" on a mission well done. Nothing is shown except text. I do remember scratching my head at who this "Jack" is since it was a full year or so before MGS2 actually came out.

Which comes to mind, it's truly a shame that Kojima didn't pull a similar easter egg in Ground Zeros.

What the acutal ****? This gif seems applicable...

I think I know where this is going..

 

[Solidus]

I never even knew that the Tanker Mission was like a simulated VR experience for Raiden. It seems like I'm always learning something new about MGS 2. There are so many things in that game that truly makes it stand out from the rest of the series.

I can see where that level of detail was lost in Ground Zeroes, since the game doesn't even strive for any sort of ambiguity.

 

[Snake Plissken]

I never even knew that the Tanker Mission was like a simulated VR experience for Raiden. It seems like I'm always learning something new about MGS 2. There are so many things in that game that truly makes it stand out from the rest of the series.

I can see where that level of detail was lost in Ground Zeroes, since the game doesn't even strive for any sort of ambiguity.

It was and it wasn't. I mean you were playing as Snake during it, but at the same time Raiden was supposed to be the avatar of the "Player" so in turn we played as Snake during The Tanker, but it was Raiden doing the VR mission parallel to Snake doing his mission.

MGS2 is convoluted slightly and can be a little perplexing to a person who has never played it before. But after digesting the game for over a decade, it's definitely the "smartest" MGS.

 

[Solidus]

It was and it wasn't. I mean you were playing as Snake during it, but at the same time Raiden was supposed to be the avatar of the "Player" so in turn we played as Snake during The Tanker, so it was Raiden on a lower level doing a VR mission.

MGS2 is convoluted slightly and can be a little perplexing to a person who has never played it before. But after digesting the game for over a decade, it's definitely the "smartest" MGS.

MGS 2 was a game that was completely lost to me when I first played it, and it took another decade for me to appreciate it for what it was. But, I find it truly amazing that I still haven't fully delved into everything as yet.

 

[Jameson Rook]

Yes. The story of the tanker IS canon, but how it unfolded was debatable. When Snake was reminiscing the tanker incident to Raiden, we're being shown a completely different sequence which in actuality was snippets of the E32000 trailer. When Raiden mentioned about undergoing the tanker mission in VR, Snake remarks "Yeah? well I doubt it accurately simulates the events of that mission."

But that being said, no way could have Raiden been privy to Liquid's resurrection, Otacon's conversation, etc. I guess at the end of the day, it's a mix of both, and as I've said, debatable.

I really hate how current MGS stories are so cut and dried, MGS2 was genuinely trying something intellectual.

 

[Jameson Rook]

I know I've posted this like a gazillion times, but this analysis of MGS2 shows just how brilliant Kojima was at his peak.

 

[Snake Plissken]

I understand the hate to MGS2, because of Snake's section being so brief and getting stuck with Raiden. But if you really break everything down about it, the game was very ahead of it's time

MGS games leave nothing up to interpretation, and everything is flat and has no deeper meaning. MGS1 had a little of that with the GENES, and MGS2 greatly expanded that with MEMES. MGS3 took a few steps back with SCENE and was no where as deeply involved as MGS2. And MGS4 went full retard with SENSE.

 

[Jameson Rook]

I understand the hate to MGS2, because of Snake's section being so brief and getting stuck with Raiden. But if you really break everything down about it, the game was very ahead of it's time

MGS games leave nothing up to interpretation, and everything is flat and has no deeper meaning. MGS1 had a little of that with the GENES, and MGS2 greatly expanded that with MEMES. MGS3 took a few steps back with SCENE and was no where as deeply involved as MGS2. And MGS4 went full retard with SENSE.

Oh, so we're gonna pretend Peace Walker's "Peace" theme with "retaliating-singing-A.I-deterrent-of all wars are solvable by drowning yourself in the sea-equals World Peace" didn't exist?

 

[Snake Plissken]

Oh, so we're gonna pretend Peace Walker's "Peace" theme with "retaliating-singing-A.I-deterrent-of all wars are solvable by drowning yourself in the sea-equals World Peace" didn't exist?

I've wiped out that nonsense out of my head like I was raped

 

[Solidus]

Yes. The story of the tanker IS canon, but how it unfolded was debatable. When Snake was reminiscing the tanker incident to Raiden, we're being shown a completely different sequence which in actuality was snippets of the E32000 trailer. When Raiden mentioned about undergoing the tanker mission in VR, Snake remarks "Yeah? well I doubt it accurately simulates the events of that mission."

But that being said, no way could have Raiden been privy to Liquid's resurrection, Otacon's conversation, etc. I guess at the end of the day, it's a mix of both, and as I've said, debatable.

I really hate how current MGS stories are so cut and dried, MGS2 was genuinely trying something intellectual.

That's a pretty neat observation. Now that makes two important things that I never knew about MGS 2, until this morning. This day is not starting well .

MGS lost its charm entirely after MGS 3. MGS 4 and PW were insulting to the intelligence; even more so with Ground Zeroes and all of the spoilers that were added in the trailers.

 

[Solidus]

I understand the hate to MGS2, because of Snake's section being so brief and getting stuck with Raiden. But if you really break everything down about it, the game was very ahead of it's time

MGS games leave nothing up to interpretation, and everything is flat and has no deeper meaning. MGS1 had a little of that with the GENES, and MGS2 greatly expanded that with MEMES. MGS3 took a few steps back with SCENE and was no where as deeply involved as MGS2. And MGS4 went full retard with SENSE.

You forgot Ground Zeroes with RAPE .

 

[Snake Plissken]

You forgot Ground Zeroes with RAPE .

So...

GENE, MEME, SCENE, SENSE, PEACE, RAPE, HORSE POOP?

What was MPO?

 

[Jameson Rook]

I've wiped out that nonsense out of my head like a raped

Because it's embarrassingly stupid. The theme of PW is "Peace" but those A.I weapons etc are meant to be taken literally, hence barely anything in PW's story is applicable in real life. To achieve peace you must.. put down your gun? What is this? Superman IV?

The thing about MGS2 was that the absurdity of everything was to juxtapose and prove a point, which was that if you stay too long in your comfort zone, believed 100% in cultural norms, you'll tun out to be a zombie feeding on whatever memes people throw at you.

I guess at the end of the day I just hope the themes of MGSV are handled with more grace. But I won't count on it since MGSV wasn't supposed to happen in the series anyway.

 

[Jameson Rook]

You forgot Ground Zeroes with RAPE .

So...

GENE, MEME, SCENE, SENSE, PEACE, RAPE, HORSE POOP?

What was MPO?

"Big Boss inheriting money he didn't earn form Steve Blum"

 

[Snake Plissken]

Because it's embarrassingly stupid. The theme of PW is "Peace" but those A.I weapons etc are meant to be taken literally, hence barely anything in PW's story is applicable in real life. To achieve peace you must.. put down your gun? What is this? Superman IV?

The thing about MGS2 was that the absurdity of everything was to juxtapose and prove a point, which was that if you stay too long in your comfort zone, believed 100% in cultural norms, you'll tun out to be a zombie feeding on whatever memes people throw at you.

I guess at the end of the day I just hope the themes of MGSV are handled with more grace. But I won't count on it since MGSV wasn't supposed to happen in the series anyway.

Besides the incessant use of Peace in PW, it was seriously annoying to me that it seemed like you needed to be constantly reminded what era it was with that Peace hippy crap. MGS3 was so subtly done, and naturally in showing you what era you were playing in and wasn't forced down your throat with PEACE!

 

[Jameson Rook]

Besides the incessant use of Peace in PW, it was seriously annoying to me that it seemed like you needed to be constantly reminded what era it was with that Peace hippy crap. MGS3 was so subtly done, and naturally in showing you what era you were playing in and wasn't forced down your throat with PEACE!

If you think that's bad, the entire premise of TPP will be about "Revenge". According to Kojma Ocelot and Kaz will constantly remind "Snake" of his quest for vengeance, like demented 3rd graders. Hint: Revenge should be subtle and alluded to, not posted as your motto.

 

[Solidus]

Because it's embarrassingly stupid. The theme of PW is "Peace" but those A.I weapons etc are meant to be taken literally, hence barely anything in PW's story is applicable in real life. To achieve peace you must.. put down your gun? What is this? Superman IV?

The thing about MGS2 was that the absurdity of everything was to juxtapose and prove a point, which was that if you stay too long in your comfort zone, believed 100% in cultural norms, you'll tun out to be a zombie feeding on whatever memes people throw at you.

I guess at the end of the day I just hope the themes of MGSV are handled with more grace. But I won't count on it since MGSV wasn't supposed to happen in the series anyway.

Kojima came out as a closet hippie in Peace Walker. And now he wants so much revenge and bloodshed in MGS V. So, I don't really understand the reasoning behind such a stark contrast.

I mentioned it before, but I look at MGS V and PW as being set in an alternate-universe from the original canon. I can appreciate that Big Boss's personality is taking a turn for the worse (if he actually is Big Boss and not someone else). But, he wasn't evil according to MGS 4 - and instead, took on the role as an unfortunate hero, and sacrificial lamb for The Patriots. So, unless Kojima plans to retcon some elements from MGS 4's storyline, MGS V isn't going to make any sense at all.

"Big Boss inheriting money he didn't earn form Steve Blum"

Steve Blum was the worst boss, ever.

 

[Jameson Rook]

I have an idea. Since Kojima is so busy with MGS and Big Boss, why not give ZOE3 to Platinum?

 

[Snake Plissken]

Platinum better churn out Rising 2 soon

Who did Steve Blum play?